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The single cylinder motorbike tacho problem.

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oldbeaver
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PostPosted: 23:34 - 25 Jul 2018    Post subject: The single cylinder motorbike tacho problem. Reply with quote

Hello everyone! I have a single cylinder Suzuki GZ150A, very nice, quiet, look bigger. It doesn't come with a factory tachometer.

I installed a universal analog tacho and feed it with the pulse signal of the coil.
As the engine is a four stroke, it has one spark every two revs, therefore, my tacho shows half the real revolutions of the engine. It just shows the pulses it receive. Not a fault, it says the true.
Was it a two cylinders, it would work fine.

I don´t know what would happen with a three cylinder or a four cylinder bike. There is no manual attached.

Now, how can I fool the tacho and make it show double as much pulses, meaning the real revs?

That is my question. Sorry for my limited English.

Some people has diesel trucks which don´t have tacho either. They get a signal from the alternator. Do you think guys that a motorbike alternator produces pulses suitable for tacho purposes?

Greetings to all and my wishes od good biking.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 00:32 - 26 Jul 2018    Post subject: Re: The single cylinder motorbike tacho problem. Reply with quote

oldbeaver wrote:
( 8< )

As the engine is a four stroke, it has one spark every two revs, therefore, my tacho shows half the real revolutions of the engine. It just shows the pulses it receive. Not a fault, it says the true.
Was it a two cylinders, it would work fine.

( 8< )

Now, how can I fool the tacho and make it show double as much pulses, meaning the real revs?


Are you sure about the first bit? It's not a "wasted spark" system?

What type/model of tacho have you got? It might be helpful to know that.


Last edited by Riejufixing on 08:53 - 26 Jul 2018; edited 1 time in total
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 01:10 - 26 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought a pretty electronic analogue tacho on an impulse a while ago which was a car type.
when fitted to my bike on one of the ignition coils it gave half the actual rpm.

DUH!
Of course.
Had I sat down a thought about it before hand I would have known better.

kwote:
"how can I fool the tacho and make it show double as much pulses, meaning the real revs?"

I did buy a 4011 IC to build a 'two pulses out for each one in' circuit but lost interest as I've never been much bothered about having a tacho and didn't have room for it anyway.

It also occurred to me that as I have a twin cylinder wasted spark type I could have tapped both coils using optos and fed it that.

I did make one using an Arduino Nano+ opto for larfs but i was like

"Tacho? we don need no stinkin tacho" by then
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The Shaggy D.A.
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PostPosted: 12:53 - 26 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've bought a cheapo tach that's for cars as an experiment. I'm betting on it being a frequency to voltage chip like an LM2907, and the 4-6-8 cylinder selector switch is just a different resistor value to adjust the scale. If I'm right, it'll just be a case of sticking a variable pot in to replace the switched resistors, find the value that works, and sticking in a fixed one.
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weasley
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PostPosted: 13:17 - 26 Jul 2018    Post subject: Re: The single cylinder motorbike tacho problem. Reply with quote

oldbeaver wrote:
As the engine is a four stroke, it has one spark every two revs, therefore, my tacho shows half the real revolutions of the engine. It just shows the pulses it receive. Not a fault, it says the true.
Was it a two cylinders, it would work fine.

I'll bet that the tacho is set up for a 2-cylinder, lost-spark setup (so one spark per revolution). Yours is a single cylinder, as you point out just one spark every other revolution (there is no point in having a lost spark for a single cylinder, since there is no other cylinder that the coil will be firing).

Unless the tacho is configurable somehow, I'd say it'll be easier to change it for a suitable replacement.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 13:48 - 26 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you checked in the back for a DIP switch or moveable jumper connection or in the connector for a looped wire (that may be designed to be cut in some circumstances)?

Been a long time since I looked into them but most aftermarket tachos will have two modes, either single spark per cycle or a wasted spark.

Doesn't really matter how many cylinders it has, the coil generally pulses either once or twice per revolution.
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oldbeaver
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PostPosted: 20:40 - 26 Jul 2018    Post subject: Re: The single cylinder motorbike tacho problem. Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:
oldbeaver wrote:
( 8< )

As the engine is a four stroke, it has one spark every two revs, therefore, my tacho shows half the real revolutions of the engine. It just shows the pulses it receive. Not a fault, it says the true.
Was it a two cylinders, it would work fine.

( 8< )

Now, how can I fool the tacho and make it show double as much pulses, meaning the real revs?


Are you sure about the first bit? It's not a "wasted spark" system?

What type/model of tacho have you got? It might be helpful to know that.


In fact the coil has two terminals (input, low voltage I think) one output high voltage to the spark on the engine.

I attached a cable to each of the input terminals but only one makes the tacho to work. It is the one with only one cable attached. The other terminal has two cables attached to it.

I don´t have a scope to measure if there is a signal on each of the terminals, would like to see that.

Thank you.
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oldbeaver
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PostPosted: 20:51 - 26 Jul 2018    Post subject: The single cylinder motorbike tacho problem. Reply with quote

The Shaggy D.A. wrote:
I've bought a cheapo tach that's for cars as an experiment. I'm betting on it being a frequency to voltage chip like an LM2907, and the 4-6-8 cylinder selector switch is just a different resistor value to adjust the scale. If I'm right, it'll just be a case of sticking a variable pot in to replace the switched resistors, find the value that works, and sticking in a fixed one.


I tried. In fact it has a variable pot inside, as well as a permanent magnet. When you take all the circuits out of the metalic case, the tacho don't work, making it difficult to perform tests. Each time I took it all out, the internal parts seems to broke.

I think the best way is to make a hole just in front of the pot to make adjustments with the engine and tacho working.

I turned the pot to one extrem position. It has no instructions as to adjust some jumpers or dip switches depending on the number of cylinders. So, I agree with you it has resistances for doing that.
I am afraid the pot is just to make small adjustments.

Thank you.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 21:45 - 26 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remove dial, place on scanner, import to PC, open in GIMP/Photoshop etc, edit image to adjust the RPM scale, print on glossy paper, glue glossy paper to dial, re-assemble tacho and fit.
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The Shaggy D.A.
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PostPosted: 22:50 - 26 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

...except if the rev counter is calibrated for 4 cylinders and you only have one cylinder that red lines at 6000, the needle will only be using a quarter of the scale and be pointing where the 1500 was.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 23:01 - 26 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Shaggy D.A. wrote:
...except if the rev counter is calibrated for 4 cylinders and you only have one cylinder that red lines at 6000, the needle will only be using a quarter of the scale and be pointing where the 1500 was.


Well he says it reads half but so what? My speedo goes to 160-odd I don't struggle to read it at 30mph.

Also

1. It'll be reading the correct RPM and
2. No-one looks at the tacho anyway.
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 01:12 - 27 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

You took the innards out and they broke eh?
and you fucked about with the pot which is for fine tuning/adjustment/set up, I'll bet
Laughing
You are Frank Spencer and I claim my five ponds

In case you're not trolling
"As the engine is a four stroke, it has one spark every two revs"
Your bike, like many, gives one pulse/spark per revolution
RTFM! I did
I bet that car tacho like the one I have, is designed for 2/3/4 pulses per rev
( 4 /6/8 cylinder car engines)
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weasley
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PostPosted: 07:29 - 27 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

WD Forte wrote:
"As the engine is a four stroke, it has one spark every two revs"
Your bike, like many, gives one pulse/spark per revolution
RTFM! I did


Why would a single cylinder engine generate a spark every revolution? I get it on a multi cylinder, the sparks get generated by the same coil feeding two cylinders because at least one cylinder will be using it for combustion and the other is wasted in the exhaust stroke of the other cylinder, but on a single there’s no need for a spark on the exhaust stroke so why have one?
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 08:11 - 27 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

weasley wrote:
WD Forte wrote:
"As the engine is a four stroke, it has one spark every two revs"
Your bike, like many, gives one pulse/spark per revolution
RTFM! I did


Why would a single cylinder engine generate a spark every revolution? I get it on a multi cylinder, the sparks get generated by the same coil feeding two cylinders because at least one cylinder will be using it for combustion and the other is wasted in the exhaust stroke of the other cylinder, but on a single there’s no need for a spark on the exhaust stroke so why have one?


Because its easier to make one spark per crank rev and just wast one of them, than it is to try making just one spark every other rev
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 13:00 - 27 Jul 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, wot he said
I bet most 4 stroke 125s have a wasted spark system and many others too
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oldbeaver
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PostPosted: 17:37 - 01 Aug 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

WD Forte wrote:
yeah, wot he said
I bet most 4 stroke 125s have a wasted spark system and many others too


That was on old bikes. New bikes, makes injection and spark just when it needs, on compression. No need of spare spark for exhaust gases.

Sorry to tell that to you at my 72 ages ( Laughing )
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