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ULEZ Loophole

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Jefr0
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PostPosted: 14:36 - 26 Feb 2019    Post subject: ULEZ Loophole Reply with quote

Hi all

It mentions it in the other thread (TFL letter also attached) that for motorcycles are subject to ULEZ if:

Registered after July 2007
or
NOx emissions equal to or less than 0.15 grams per kilometer

If you get hold of your NOx emissions from your v5 you can email TFL to prove your bike is not subject to ULEZ and they'll update their database with your bike alone (not entire model range)

As most people have realized, this information is usually blanked out on the v5. For Honda, you can contact:

certificateofconformity@honda-eu.com

I emailed Honda and got my certificate of conformity, which for my bike happens to be 0.19g/km.

My bike is a Honda XR 125 L3 - 53 plate.

I've been emailing TFL with what I think is a fair argument:

A Honda XR 125 L6 - 07 plate will fail if registered before July 2007.
A Honda XR 125 L6 - 57 plate will pass if registered after July 2007.

It's the exact same bike, yet one fails. The bike hasn't changed since even my L3. The L6 also produces 0.19g/km, which would mean you're subject to ULEZ.

It's the exact same bike? That's what I've been trying to get across to TFL with no luck. I have a L3 and a L6 both registered before July 2007, which emit the exact same emissions as an L6 July 2007 onwards...

Anyone had any luck as this is pretty frustrating I have two bikes I use for work, which emit the same emissions so going to have to sell them both, then by another XR or two, 57 plate onwards when they're all the same bike!

Has anyone got around the loophole and found their bike less than 0.15g/km or had a similar argument to mine above which I think is fair...

Cheers
Jeff
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The Shaggy D.A.
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PostPosted: 14:51 - 26 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Source a completely fucked later bike and use the plate.
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thehairysmite...
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PostPosted: 11:51 - 08 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've emailed Yamaha asking for my emissions data, should hear back in 10 working days. They said if it meets the NOX emissions requirements they'll charge £60 for a certificate of conformity and I can provide that to TfL. Fingers crossed.
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thehairysmite...
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PostPosted: 14:08 - 08 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yahama have got back to me confirming my 2005 FZ6 has 0.11g/km of NOx emissions and so is ULEZ compliant. Great news.
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 15:43 - 08 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

thehairysmiter wrote:
Yahama have got back to me confirming my 2005 FZ6 has 0.11g/km of NOx emissions and so is ULEZ compliant. Great news.


Great news! Bound to be worth a shot... Don't suppose you have an email address for them?
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 18:10 - 08 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just got my confirmation through from cclondon about my 2004 BMW. I didn't have a certificate of conformity, just a letter from BMW. Attached that to the enquiry form along with a scan of my V5c and got this email back:

Quote:
Thank you for your enquiry received on 7 March 2019, regarding the Ultra Low Emission Zone (ULEZ.
Based on the information that you have provided we can confirm that your vehicle, registration ******, meets the Ultra Low Emission Zone (ULEZ) emissions standards. This means you will not need to pay an ULEZ charge to travel in the zone, from 8 April 2019.
The vehicle compliance database will be updated to reflect the correct details of your vehicle, before the scheme commences.

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Keir
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PostPosted: 22:58 - 10 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

SUZUKI CERTIFICATE OF CONFORMITY LINK HERE - however they charge £95 for it.

not sure its worth applying until I know what my 02 bandit 600 pumps out.

EDIT - first reference I find is for a 99, Greenhouse gases: 15.3 CO2 g/km. (CO2 - Carbon dioxide emission) . doesn't look good . Middle Finger
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 23:32 - 10 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll stick my neck out and say that no pre-2007 carbed bike is going to be ULEZ compliant.
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talkToTheHat
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PostPosted: 04:24 - 12 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keir wrote:
not sure its worth applying until I know what my 02 bandit 600 pumps out.


I think the bandit needed substantial alterations to make it through emissions standards, I very much doubt the 05-07 oil cooled 650 is getting through.
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 12:12 - 12 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the email I got from Yamaha in response to my enquiry about my aircooled 1990s carburettored bike:

Yamaha Customer Service wrote:

Good Afternoon,

Thank you for your enquiry.

Due to the age of this machine it was not subject to emissions testing, in this instance there is no recorded NOx value for the machine that we can advise of.

Kind Regards


This is a good response. It means I am free to seek emissions certification independently from an engineer. I favour the southern European approach to unjust bureaucratic diktats.
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Jefr0
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PostPosted: 13:53 - 13 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete. wrote:
I just got my confirmation through from cclondon about my 2004 BMW. I didn't have a certificate of conformity, just a letter from BMW. Attached that to the enquiry form along with a scan of my V5c and got this email back:

Quote:
Thank you for your enquiry received on 7 March 2019, regarding the Ultra Low Emission Zone (ULEZ.
Based on the information that you have provided we can confirm that your vehicle, registration ******, meets the Ultra Low Emission Zone (ULEZ) emissions standards. This means you will not need to pay an ULEZ charge to travel in the zone, from 8 April 2019.
The vehicle compliance database will be updated to reflect the correct details of your vehicle, before the scheme commences.


I wonder how many letters are getting faked? Would be fraud but I wonder if they keep hold of them for history?

I'm surprised they're charging for the certificates when Honda gave me mine for free.

thehairysmiter wrote:
Yahama have got back to me confirming my 2005 FZ6 has 0.11g/km of NOx emissions and so is ULEZ compliant. Great news.


How can a 2005 FZ6 emit less NOx emissions than a little 125 Crying or Very sad

I ended up buying a CB125F 68 plate so I'm covered now. Just haven't got a spare bike without having to pay £12.50 a day.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 20:12 - 13 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jefr0 wrote:


I wonder how many letters are getting faked? Would be fraud but I wonder if they keep hold of them for history?

I'm surprised they're charging for the certificates when Honda gave me mine for free.


I wasn't charged for my letter, but only because the certificate of conformity didn't hold the info required. Others have received a low-res copy of the certificate with a huge watermark on it, and a demand for £120 for a genuine cert, but printed off the low-res document and got an exemption using that.

Forging one of these would be foolish, because if you got caught out later down the line there would be one hell of a bill coming your way. 2 or 3 years of £12.50 a day is a fair wedge (3-4k a year) to pay back.

The letter I got from cclondon also said this:

Quote:

IMPORTANT NOTICE
The compliance status of your vehicle for the Ultra Low Emission Zone has been calculated based on the information
you provided. It is your responsibility to ensure the information you provide is accurate. Every effort is made to ensure
that the information we provide you is correct at the date of our response. However, we provide no warranty as to the
accuracy of the information and accept no legal liability or responsibility for its accuracy. If you are in any doubt over
your vehicle's Euro emission standard, please refer to your vehicle registration document - also known as a V5C - or
contact your vehicle manufacturer.

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132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy
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woo
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PostPosted: 21:57 - 15 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

think i will try my luck and see if i can get a blanket COC for the Suzuki GSXR 1000 k5/k6 models as thats the only bike I really want back again!
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 08:35 - 16 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

woo wrote:
think i will try my luck and see if i can get a blanket COC for the Suzuki GSXR 1000 k5/k6 models as thats the only bike I really want back again!


What you want is blanket type-approval. COC is individual to each VIN so you won't get a blanket one of those. Type approval covers is more like a standard that the model is built to.
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132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy
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thehairysmite...
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PostPosted: 14:08 - 16 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bhud wrote:
thehairysmiter wrote:
Yahama have got back to me confirming my 2005 FZ6 has 0.11g/km of NOx emissions and so is ULEZ compliant. Great news.


Great news! Bound to be worth a shot... Don't suppose you have an email address for them?


Cust.Service@yamaha-motor.co.uk
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leolion
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PostPosted: 09:49 - 31 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2019/march/ulez-test/

might get you round it.
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 11:20 - 31 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd seen that linked in another forum (CCM) and the cost is huge, but, it might be a life saver.
I just hope it's a simple one-off test and not a yearly requirement (which it shouldn't be)
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 11:23 - 31 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

It'll be a real money-spinner for the place that's authorised. £175 to tell you your carbed bike never stood a chance.
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132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 11:38 - 31 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete. wrote:
It'll be a real money-spinner for the place that's authorised. £175 to tell you your carbed bike never stood a chance.


That's the crux.

£175 is "nothing", but it doesn't mean it could be given away for nothing. This is the same mistake bike gear manufacturers make when they promote an idea rather than a product.

At the end of the day, I would be happy putting my carb'd bikes through for £175 a shot after dosing them with Redex or something they might be selling at an understandable premium at their own nearby trade counter, but only on the understanding. I won't say "the nod and the wink" but you can't get any clearer... A Greek or Sicilian style of understanding. Someone who knows the ins and outs of their testing system and the strengths and weaknesses of the testing process, like a VW engineer, cool. But if it's a typical British engineer know-it-all with a head full of heritage and British Standards, who sees the world in black and white, in charge of this, then I would be an idiot to just roll up there with the dosh on an 80s or 90s bike and "hope for the best".

Would be enormously helpful if they could roll out a few indications on the grapevine (Facebook or Visordown comments, for example) as to whether only bikes built around 2005-2007 should bother using this facility.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 11:47 - 31 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheaper to find a place which has a 5 gas analyser and pay them do do a test. You'll still need to fork out for the official test if it passes but at least you won't be shelling out the full amount to find out your nox is way too high anyway.
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132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 10:37 - 12 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete. wrote:
It'll be a real money-spinner for the place that's authorised. £175 to tell you your carbed bike never stood a chance.


Part of what they do (As I understand it) Is basically to tweak your bike to pass. If they think they can make it pass they will. If they don't think it'll pass they'll tell you.

Apparently a 1998 FireBlade was made to pass somehow... (reported in this months Practical Sportsbike).
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Old Sod
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PostPosted: 14:02 - 16 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

My first post here, and although I'm well into retirement, I get quite curmudgenly about legislation and BS. Ridden bikes since I was 16, and spent 20yrs despatching, so I've clocked a few.

ULEZ & LEZ. It's an expensive con designed to raise money to pay for Khan's budget deficits.

I don't have a bike that is newer than 1978 so that puts mine in the Historic class tax wise. But even so, there are anomalies in the system (surprised?). If government can make a mess of things or keep secrets and feed you lies - they will - and do.

But the vehicle checker website of TfL for checking to see if your Historic is exempt, comes up with too many anomalies. For example; a bunch of bikes I used to have from around 1974 are all rejected and must pay (despite them being over 40yrs old (why??), but the N reg. 1972 37ft long 49 seater Green Line coach such as I used to drive with an 8.2 litre turbocharged diesel - is exempt! As are some of the old bangers I had back when.

The London ULEZ requires £12.50 a day. It's a con. As written in the latest MAG journal, TfL place a limit of 0.15g/km as the limit above which charges apply. But where's that limit come from? Turns out it's a modelling program called COPERT 5, the technical development of which was financed by the European Environment Agency. Wuugh!

Well, I've tried getting into that lot and failed. But I know a man who has succeeded, and his discovery is that TfL's upper limit of NOx at 0.15g/km can be bettered by virtually all motorcycles. In fact, the so-called "dirty two strokes" like my MZ ES125 and all others, can halve that number! And yet, the latest diesel cars meeting Euro6c and are also exempt, but put out 0.21g/km!!

I've a letter off to TfL right now, but like most government organisations a reply may not be forthcoming. At least Santa writes back.

The other kicker is: NOx quantities in the air if reduced to the amount Mr Khant wants, then single lives might be increased by 3½hrs in total life expectancy. Elsewhere, one scientist calculated that if all road transport and industry were to close down completely to reduce NOx to zero, an individuals life expectancy would increase by one month. Sadiq's "saving 40,000 lives a year" - nonsense. He should have been here in the early fifties as I was - and I'm still here.

The other BS story is that of CO2. Carbon Dioxide has been labelled a pollutant on government databases and policies are in place to curb it - car tax is based upon it. CO2 is not a pollutant, and its contribution to any alleged global warming is so negligible to be non-existent. It's a natural trace gas in the atmosphere that plants need to survive and thrive. At 400ppmv the current level, we are in a CO2 starvation period as regards plant life. 900ppmv would give us 20% more productivity and food. But attempting to hammer governments with such details only puts you in the nutter category amongst the many who have swallowed the lie. All global corporate created.

Might look in later (If I get a reply from TfL!). How things change - and get worse with every new unveiled 'plan'. The 'Good Old Days'? No, much is better, but we had fewer people, and fewer Laws. We had some fun.

Old Sod.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 16:39 - 16 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whoa! Keep us informed Thumbs Up
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 18:28 - 16 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old Sod wrote:
Well, I've tried getting into that lot and failed. But I know a man who has succeeded, and his discovery is that TfL's upper limit of NOx at 0.15g/km can be bettered by virtually all motorcycles.


Welcome Old Sod. Hope you stick around.
What you wrote above is very interesting. I just got wind of someone putting an old (early 80s) 4-cylinder 4-stroke (air-cooled, carburettored) bike through an approved TfL emissions testing station, and it passed easily, apparently. TfL sent him a letter acknowledging this and removing his bike (but only his and not every model of that bike, mind) from their ULEZ charging system.
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