Help & FAQs    Search BCF    Members    Groups    Events Calendar
Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


Battery DIY replacement.

 Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> The Cycling Forum
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

Riejufixing
World Chat Champion



Joined: 24 Jun 2018
Karma :
PostPosted: 14:50 - 05 Aug 2019    Post subject: Battery DIY replacement. Reply with quote
Has anyone replaced their own battery? I need to replace a 36V 10AH batteri in a tricycle, and I'm wondering whether or not to go for 3x12v lead acids, or try to build a Li-ion one from 18650s. What's in at the moment is those cells-in-bags which are considerably bulged, and U/S.
Weight... cost... issues...
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

GettinBetter
Crazy Courier



Joined: 20 Jun 2019
Karma :
PostPosted: 22:19 - 04 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Is this all done & dusted now, if so what did you do?
I replaced my lead acids with lithium ions, but won't bore you with the details if you've sorted it.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Riejufixing
World Chat Champion



Joined: 24 Jun 2018
Karma :
PostPosted: 22:43 - 04 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
GettinBetter wrote:
Is this all done & dusted now, if so what did you do?
I replaced my lead acids with lithium ions, but won't bore you with the details if you've sorted it.

No. The poxy thing's still blocking up my wood workshop, which I can hardly get into because of stuff like that. The battery is outside in case it "does something". The cells in it aren't 18650s, they're flat (well, supposedly flat) things "in bags".
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Easy-X
Super Spammer



Joined: 08 Mar 2019
Karma :
PostPosted: 04:07 - 05 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sounds like Lithium Polymer batteries.

I build batteries for ebikes. Is that the sort of thing you're after?
____________________
Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

GettinBetter
Crazy Courier



Joined: 20 Jun 2019
Karma :
PostPosted: 10:32 - 05 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Riejufixing wrote:

No. The poxy thing's still blocking up my wood workshop, which I can hardly get into because of stuff like that. The battery is outside in case it "does something". The cells in it aren't 18650s, they're flat (well, supposedly flat) things "in bags".


My original lead acids were 12kgs, the lithium replacement was 7kgs, with the same capacity, but at 48V. I wouldn't choose the lead acid route

Ok, if Easy-X is correct you already have lion batteries... we have questions, which'll save loads of posts.
1. What make of tricycle.
2. Factory fitted electrics or retro/DIY.
3. Power of the motor.
4. Part Number of existing 'bags', and confirm quantity.
5. Declared voltage & mAh output, (the Chinese seem to be in a badge engineering war with fictitious capacities).
6. Photos would really help.

Cool
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Easy-X
Super Spammer



Joined: 08 Mar 2019
Karma :
PostPosted: 12:03 - 05 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
TBH you don't even need all that. Just give us the spec of the motor(s) i.e. expected voltage and maximum power output.

For example, if the motor is "36V, 250W" one would need to account for a surge of ~400W....

I make 18650 battery packs and for such a motor I would use 10 batteries in series and 3 or 4 in parallel. (More in parallel = more capacity both for range and maximum power output.)

I spot weld the batteries together with nickel strips and then solder on a BMS PCB (battery management system) and then it's just a case of packaging.
____________________
Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

GettinBetter
Crazy Courier



Joined: 20 Jun 2019
Karma :
PostPosted: 12:35 - 05 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
...

I make 18650 battery packs and for such a motor I would use 10 batteries in series and 3 or 4 in parallel. (More in parallel = more capacity both for range and maximum power output.)

I spot weld the batteries together with nickel strips and then solder on a BMS PCB (battery management system) and then it's just a case of packaging.


Nice... have you got any pics of your batteries? really interested in the spot welding.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Riejufixing
World Chat Champion



Joined: 24 Jun 2018
Karma :
PostPosted: 20:57 - 01 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
OK, sorry for the delay, I've just found the battery. My info inline.
GettinBetter wrote:
Ok, if Easy-X is correct you already have lion batteries... we have questions, which'll save loads of posts.
1. What make of tricycle.

It's a Batribike Trike 20 with a horizontal battery box under the rear basket.

2. Factory fitted electrics or retro/DIY.

I think that the battery is the original one.

3. Power of the motor.

Motor: 250W front hub brushless

4. Part Number of existing 'bags', and confirm quantity.

As attached photo, I hope.

5. Declared voltage & mAh output, (the Chinese seem to be in a badge engineering war with fictitious capacities).

Hm, tricky. Battery Power: 36v 10Ah (from: https://www.e-bikesdirect.co.uk/brands/batribike/batribike-trike-20-electric-trike)

6. Photos would really help.

Attached.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

GettinBetter
Crazy Courier



Joined: 20 Jun 2019
Karma :
PostPosted: 14:42 - 02 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ah, you forgot a piccy of the bike...

Can't quite make out the first couple of characters of that battery part number (looks like JD7065120PP ?)

Ok, So 20 packs at 3.2V = 64 V
So they must be 10 in series and 2 in parallel, giving 32V.
Fully charged they would actually be around 3.4/3.5 maybe higher and hence closer to the 36V expected.

Until it's tested you can only assume the control system, and the BMS is working fine, same goes for the charger.
Have you ever used the bike/had it running? That would clear some of those issues up.

If it's just batteries then replacing like for like (if still obtainable) is the easiest option.

I'd search for same:
1. Voltage.
2. Capacity (or better, but remembering anything that sounds too good to be true... ).
3. Discharge rate (Very important).
4. Charge Rate (Very important).
5. Dimensions (if you want to use the same case).

Searching will at least give you some idea of the costs involved.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Riejufixing
World Chat Champion



Joined: 24 Jun 2018
Karma :
PostPosted: 17:53 - 02 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
GettinBetter wrote:
Ah, you forgot a piccy of the bike...

There's a sales video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt7z0udPT_4

It's one of these tilting things that is safer when cornering than a rigid, although it feels very dodgy until you know what to expect. It belonged to an elderly relative who won't be using it any more, and it's been bunging up my wood shop for too long.


Can't quite make out the first couple of characters of that battery part number (looks like JD7065120PP ?)

I *think* it's that.

Ok, So 20 packs at 3.2V = 64 V
So they must be 10 in series and 2 in parallel, giving 32V.
Fully charged they would actually be around 3.4/3.5 maybe higher and hence closer to the 36V expected.

Until it's tested you can only assume the control system, and the BMS is working fine, same goes for the charger.
Have you ever used the bike/had it running? That would clear some of those issues up.

I have been on it, about 3 1/2 years ago, and it would do about a mile before phutting out, I assume with flat batteries.

If it's just batteries then replacing like for like (if still obtainable) is the easiest option.

I'd search for same:
1. Voltage.
2. Capacity (or better, but remembering anything that sounds too good to be true... ).
3. Discharge rate (Very important).
4. Charge Rate (Very important).
5. Dimensions (if you want to use the same case).

Searching will at least give you some idea of the costs involved.

I will have a look. It seems that since I last looked, a couple of years ago, the price has risen.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

GettinBetter
Crazy Courier



Joined: 20 Jun 2019
Karma :
PostPosted: 23:15 - 02 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
This looked interesting...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNksyf2VqKo

Might also be worth sending a generic email to a couple of Batribike dealers to see if they can supply a new one, you never know... might be reasonable, compared to all the faffing to replace the cells.
Just a thought...

Also this company seems to be highly recommended.. so no harm in asking..https://ebikebatteries.co.uk/contacts/
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Riejufixing
World Chat Champion



Joined: 24 Jun 2018
Karma :
PostPosted: 23:49 - 02 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
GettinBetter wrote:
This looked interesting...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNksyf2VqKo

Might also be worth sending a generic email to a couple of Batribike dealers to see if they can supply a new one, you never know... might be reasonable, compared to all the faffing to replace the cells.
Just a thought...

It's possible I can get a replacement. However, there are a couple of options.

1) Buy another complete battery pack & charger, e.g. Samsung one here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000290976528.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.664b1992i1hc9y&algo_pvid=3c98252a-8ab7-48f5-b070-546e0922830a&algo_expid=3c98252a-8ab7-48f5-b070-546e0922830a-2&btsid=0b0a0ac215831923706583507eff89&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_ and stick it in the existing casing, easy to do, IF it's likely tpo work...

2) Re-cell, see if the charger works, PITA, no guarantee other components OK.

3) Replace the battery with 3 x lead acid e.g. 12V 15Ah = (£90-ish, trihe so pooh to weight).

4) A Batribike battery (unsure if available for "old" models) is nearly £400.


Sort of tempted by (1), but I freely admit I have not the faintest idea whatI'm firing at, or whether that would work. It looks as though it might. What do you think, please?
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

GettinBetter
Crazy Courier



Joined: 20 Jun 2019
Karma :
PostPosted: 19:17 - 03 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Riejufixing wrote:
...

3) Replace the battery with 3 x lead acid e.g. 12V 15Ah = (£90-ish, trihe so pooh to weight)....


Just a thought, but I still have the three 12V lead acid batteries I took out of my bike, I don't know how far away you are but you're welcome to try them to see if you bike runs ok? Hell you can even have them if you want?
They where only a year old when I acquired the bike from my brother, he was a bit miffed when I told him I'd lobbed his trusty batteries, but hey I bought it, so can do what I like.... that was a year ago I keep them charged.

On the other hand, this is no quick fix, if you want to do it properly, there are countless options available, and after days even weeks of surfing the net you'll settle on something you can live with. Also there's a ton of research if you're new to electronics. Getting familiar with the subject takes time.

I had a look for that part number, and didn't find anything. Maybe there's a cross referencing/equivalent list, out there somewhere, that'll be the next step?
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Easy-X
Super Spammer



Joined: 08 Mar 2019
Karma :
PostPosted: 21:15 - 03 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Making your own battery packs is the almost the most economical but certainly the safest. No idea what cells they've used in cheap Chinese battery packs.

Downside is you'd need to have a battery spot welder.
____________________
Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

GettinBetter
Crazy Courier



Joined: 20 Jun 2019
Karma :
PostPosted: 19:02 - 05 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
Downside is you'd need to have a battery spot welder.


I never used a spot welder, here's mine.. attached.
48V 31.5Ah (126 18650 @ 14S9P)

I did make a spot welder but wasn't happy with it, connections weren't 100%, also I preferred to use copper connections so never used the coil of nickel strip I bought.

Ran it to work and back through the summer gone (34 mile round trip), charged it at work.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Easy-X
Super Spammer



Joined: 08 Mar 2019
Karma :
PostPosted: 20:46 - 05 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
The problem with soldering is the potential for damaging the cell. Spot welding is just a jolt so not too much heat being thrown in. Also a lot quicker, once you get into the swing of it.

I've just got a cheap Chinese spot welder: does the job as long as it doesn't overheat. The tricky bit is finding pure nickel strip over nickel plated crap.
____________________
Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
Karma :
PostPosted: 14:21 - 06 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lots of good deals on ebay/aliexpress/etc.
I got an unused 20AH 36v with base plate for pannier rack and charger for £150 and a new 52V 13AH UPP (with branded cells it says, unbranded ones cheaper) made for tube mounting with nice bracket for £218 delivered with charger.

At those prices, I don't think I'd bother faffing with

I've also paid £200 for a LifePo4 16S (52v) battery listed at 60AH! (But this was parter of a much bigger purchase.)
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 4 years, 319 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
  Display posts from previous:   
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> The Cycling Forum All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
 You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 
Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.10 Sec - Server Load: 0.22 - MySQL Queries: 17 - Page Size: 103.55 Kb