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New Zero electric bike.

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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 20:37 - 20 Feb 2020    Post subject: New Zero electric bike. Reply with quote

I've just read something about a Zero motorcycles SRS bike I think it is. They claim a 200mile range, 124mph, 110bhp and a that it's possible to fast charge to 90% battery capacity in 1hour.

I suppose for most people that need to use a bike for a transport solution it would fit alot of peoples needs? Maybe it's suitable for some/many leisure riders needs too?

But there's not many people who really need to use an expensive big bike as a daily transport device, and with most motorcycle purchases being about the latest most excessive and most impractical options, then I guess its doomed?

The above stats sound good to me, but if your looking at 22'000+ for a 215bhp, 186mph bike loaded with electronic aids, and something that you can fill up in 2min to full fuel and range capacity then it comes up well short of the standard, so maybe it'll never sell?
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kgm
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PostPosted: 21:17 - 20 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a couple of their bikes that would work pretty well for my commute but the prices are madness when I get a new crf250l for just over 4k or a really decent second hand machine for similar and less.

I'd actually like an electric bike for commuting, but no way can I justify the cost.
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 21:28 - 20 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will just leave this here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9jscWk2DMg
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MCN
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PostPosted: 22:09 - 20 Feb 2020    Post subject: Re: New Zero electric bike. Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
I've just read something about a Zero motorcycles SRS bike I think it is. They claim a 200mile range, 124mph, 110bhp and a that it's possible to fast charge to 90% battery capacity in 1hour.

I suppose for most people that need to use a bike for a transport solution it would fit alot of peoples needs? Maybe it's suitable for some/many leisure riders needs too?

But there's not many people who really need to use an expensive big bike as a daily transport device, and with most motorcycle purchases being about the latest most excessive and most impractical options, then I guess its doomed?

The above stats sound good to me, but if your looking at 22'000+ for a 215bhp, 186mph bike loaded with electronic aids, and something that you can fill up in 2min to full fuel and range capacity then it comes up well short of the standard, so maybe it'll never sell?


We used coal to power almost everything (and wind/water/horse) a hundred years ago.

We hardly use coal to power much now-a-days except heating and power generation.

One reason was coal fired machines are difficult to maintain.

We shifted to the IC engine and things have been.mostly powered by petrol Deisel Methane Propane lately Bio fuels.

IC engines will be phased out.

Electric engines are coming like it or not.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 22:57 - 20 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Electric motors are cheap so I presume it's the battery that costs so much. I do wonder in future if the electric vehicle is going to have a second hand market to speak of or is it just going to be a leasing marked for anyone who hasn't got the readys.

And however nice it is, I'd rather have a GoldWing or a Rocket 3 for that money.
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G
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PostPosted: 00:01 - 21 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
Electric motors are cheap so I presume it's the battery that costs so much

This comes with a 14.4kwh battery.

Two batteries I've recently bought:
Brand new 'branded cell' li-ion 0.676kwh for 218 including a 52v charger, detachable mounting case etc - price for the batteries alone for 14.4kw around 4k or so, but we'd presume they're paying a good bit less.
"Returns" LifePo4 10x rated at 14.4kwh total energy as it goes - 1k.

Price of light weight motors and controllers that can handle 80KW are going to start to push the price up a good bit.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 00:08 - 21 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
Price of light weight motors and controllers that can handle 80KW are going to start to push the price up a good bit.

An electric 80kW motor on a bike would be superexcellent. Wow!
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 01:04 - 21 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Economies of scale will hopefully drop that >20k Zero down to 15k, 10k and so on... TBH I feel electric motorcycles could be a much more practical transport solution than electric cars, and certainly lorries.

The proportion of weight for the engine + fuel tank versus the "necessary bits" (brakes, suspension, errr... wheels Smile steering, etc.) means you're taking away quite a bit before swapping in a motor + battery. Also a bike is only meant to take 1 or 2 people.

A car on the other hand still has a stack of weight (more wheels, body shell, seats, etc.) and is meant to take 1 to 5 people!

All in all I'd say we (as bikers) could have the best of electric vehicles: range not much worse than a tank of fuel, squeaky-bum levels of acceleration and the quickest recharge time. Engine and exhaust noise is the only real sacrifice.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 01:09 - 21 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd definitely like to ride one, and if I was in the market for a new big road bike, it's easily enough performance and range for any riding I'd do these days, and a near full re-charge in an hour is no hassle to me. Its much more about the money and what else say red and Italian you could buy for that cash. Unlike Chickenstrip the fact its silent and has no gearbox wouldn't be a deal breaker for me either.

The real issue is that I can't ever see me needing a bike over 300-500cc, and I'm not after anything practical or low maintenance. I like really light bikes, like an upright riding position and the thought of something that's been derived from a competition machine. I'd not need to spend much over 1/3rd of the price of the Zero to buy anything new that suits my needs/interests. The other problem is that I like old classic shit, and Zero money buys a couple of very cool classics.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 09:33 - 21 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at their website they seem to have got the aesthetics pretty nice. They do look like bikes.

However - It's always a however.....

The range is city miles. Without digging through trying to find their definition of city mile, I'd guess at something like a steady 30mph.

I go out on Sundays with my friends riding and 100 miles is the minimum, usually 150+ at NSL Whistle speeds. How far will it go ridden like that.

I'd like to try one but I certainly wont be buying.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 09:49 - 21 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

" "
Did you hear that?

That was the noise of my electric bike Zorst.

How many kittens will be killed by pipes that are quiet? Shocked
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G
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PostPosted: 11:11 - 21 Feb 2020    Post subject: Re: New Zero electric bike. Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:

An electric 80kW motor on a bike would be superexcellent. Wow!

stevo as b4 wrote:
I've just read something about a Zero motorcycles SRS bike I think it is. They claim a 200mile range, 124mph, 110bhp and a that it's possible to fast charge to 90% battery capacity in 1hour.

Am I missing something here? Or were you thinking push bike style?
(110bhp is actually 82KW, but close enough.)
There's more the question of why not faster - but I'd guess it's a mixture of being what seems like a pretty simple setup - air cooled motor without a gearbox, meaning there's always a compromise between low down thrust and top end.


Last edited by G on 15:36 - 21 Feb 2020; edited 1 time in total
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 11:27 - 21 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
Looking at their website they seem to have got the aesthetics pretty nice. They do look like bikes.

However - It's always a however.....

The range is city miles. Without digging through trying to find their definition of city mile, I'd guess at something like a steady 30mph.

I go out on Sundays with my friends riding and 100 miles is the minimum, usually 150+ at NSL Whistle speeds. How far will it go ridden like that.

I'd like to try one but I certainly wont be buying.


I bumped into a chap the other day who had ridden up to London from Southampton on his Zero using motorways. He still had about half the range left.

He had retrofitted an old 1950s fairing to it which was pretty cool, and probably helped a little with aerodynamics and range. The fairing is why I got talking to him, in case you wondered.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 11:59 - 21 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Zero is one of the first offerings we can take seriously; bit like Tesla but without the pot-smoking and mad rockets. Things should only get better from here Smile

What sort of noises are ppl like Yamaha, Honda, BMW, etc. making about electric bikes?
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 13:18 - 21 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can see a lot of bike manufacturers closing down. I just don't think motorcycling has the mass appeal to transfer to electric successfully.

Look on this site, there are 1 or 2 protagonists, a few ambivalent and most against.

I reckon a large swathe of bikers won't make the change, certainly the older ones and attracting new blood is hard enough as it is.

Chinese disposable electric scooters will become the norm. Bikes for fun? Not at that money.
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Last edited by Polarbear on 13:48 - 21 Feb 2020; edited 1 time in total
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 13:33 - 21 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think they're charging that because they can, for now.

There is limited supply, and even at 20k for the bike, if you can afford the monthly payment or outright cost, it does work out cheaper in the end for a commuter.

Honda, Suzuki and BMW will surely do something, they've all got car businesses to borrow tech from and lower the costs. When a few more manufacturers are involved, the costs will naturally come down.

When the only alternative is the tube, bikes will continue to do well around London at least. There are enough people with the money to afford the outlay.

Mind you, they're increasing the 20 zones, being overtaken by cyclists doesn't sound that fun!
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 13:51 - 21 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

c_dug wrote:
I think they're charging that because they can, for now.

There is limited supply, and even at 20k for the bike, if you can afford the monthly payment or outright cost, it does work out cheaper in the end for a commuter.

Honda, Suzuki and BMW will surely do something, they've all got car businesses to borrow tech from and lower the costs. When a few more manufacturers are involved, the costs will naturally come down.

When the only alternative is the tube, bikes will continue to do well around London at least. There are enough people with the money to afford the outlay.

Mind you, they're increasing the 20 zones, being overtaken by cyclists doesn't sound that fun!


Might as well get an electric push bike then. Cheaper, no rules to worry about.
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G
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PostPosted: 15:38 - 21 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

c_dug wrote:
I think they're charging that because they can, for now.

I suspect also economies of scale - overall Honda needs to makes a lot less money per bike to have a decently profitable and sustainable organisation.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 16:32 - 21 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look at what made motorcycling popular.
The cheap mode of mechanical transport for the masses.
Most working people could never afford a car.
And so relied on public transport.
The motorcycle brought them independence.

20k is not an affordable alternative for the working woman/man.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 17:15 - 21 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

There will always be motorcycles; dovetails nicely into the whole "Historic Vehicles" thing...

2035 no more "new" ICE vehicles (let's just assume bikes are included) your 40yo "museum piece" could be this:

https://www.bennetts.co.uk/-/media/bikesocial/2019-april-images/ducati-916-modern-classic/1995-ducati-916-01.ashx?h=493&w=740&la=en&hash=68315404FA624450FEF10BA1F7986EE5CA70EBE1
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 17:40 - 21 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
There will always be motorcycles; dovetails nicely into the whole "Historic Vehicles" thing...

2035 no more "new" ICE vehicles (let's just assume bikes are included) your 40yo "museum piece" could be this:

https://www.bennetts.co.uk/-/media/bikesocial/2019-april-images/ducati-916-modern-classic/1995-ducati-916-01.ashx?h=493&w=740&la=en&hash=68315404FA624450FEF10BA1F7986EE5CA70EBE1


Yeahbut, when petrol stations are all gone and you can only buy fuel from Halfords in a 25l bottle for 200, your museum piece is basically unusable.
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linuxyeti
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PostPosted: 19:04 - 21 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
I can see a lot of bike manufacturers closing down. I just don't think motorcycling has the mass appeal to transfer to electric successfully.

Look on this site, there are 1 or 2 protagonists, a few ambivalent and most against.

I reckon a large swathe of bikers won't make the change, certainly the older ones and attracting new blood is hard enough as it is.

Chinese disposable electric scooters will become the norm. Bikes for fun? Not at that money.


What makes you think that?? What percentage of owners of the currently 'active' 1.3 million motorcycles in the UK are on this forum? Those of us on here, are very much in the minority of the motorcycle owning public, and, probably not all that representative.

As time progresses, costs come down, and range continues to increase, and choice of manufacturers and models increases, there's no reason why current manufacturers should go to the wall.

Even Triumph have a electric bike coming along, Royal Enfield are known to be working on 1, a number of patents have been applied for by the various japanese manufacturers ...

What, they, have to be wary of, is, the chinese, who's ev's are getting quite advanced, and as a country they are probably somewhat ahead of the curve in both ownership and manufacture of ev's. I would really like to see a UK distributor pick up the Evoke brand, they look a very decent proposition, and, are getting really good reviews in the press.. Anyhow, I digress, essentially, the current mainstream manufacturers really do need to start upping their game in this area, or, risk losing out.
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 19:32 - 21 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

The big question: Would coal loving Sister Sledge have one?
Yes. But - prices are too high still. Prices will drop as production volumes increase but I still think they'll be a bit high. Leasing is how they will 'sell' the product to us.

Several have touched on things in the comments. Make the leccy bike from competition machine parts. A crosser for example. Weight will be low and suspension etc will be top notch stuff. A decent leccy supermoto appeals.
Electric bikes are still in their infancy and although they don't need one, add a gearbox with a few gears in and not just speed can be achieved but also economy. Remember too that current motors (bad joke there somewhere..) simply rely on a direct input. If they follow industrial motor technology and use variable field controls (switch a few off once up to speed = economy) then battery life will increase.
Many people complain about batteries giving low mileage but the use of clever controls and motors will dramatically increase range.

As a side note I'm soon to be renewing a car lease. I've been skimming a few vehicle manufacturers websites and have noticed a big increase in electric vehicle offerings.
We still need to sort out electricity networks and generation. If things go too quick we'll have power cuts. (I have candles waiting)
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 01:31 - 22 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

c_dug wrote:
Easy-X wrote:
There will always be motorcycles; dovetails nicely into the whole "Historic Vehicles" thing...

2035 no more "new" ICE vehicles (let's just assume bikes are included) your 40yo "museum piece" could be this:

https://www.bennetts.co.uk/-/media/bikesocial/2019-april-images/ducati-916-modern-classic/1995-ducati-916-01.ashx?h=493&w=740&la=en&hash=68315404FA624450FEF10BA1F7986EE5CA70EBE1


Yeahbut, when petrol stations are all gone and you can only buy fuel from Halfords in a 25l bottle for 200, your museum piece is basically unusable.


Retro-fit to run on Ethanol Wink
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kgm
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PostPosted: 12:08 - 22 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

c_dug wrote:

There is limited supply, and even at 20k for the bike, if you can afford the monthly payment or outright cost, it does work out cheaper in the end for a commuter.


Compared to a new R1200GS or MT10 or something perhaps, but compared to a couple of year VFR/any other middle of the road bike, or even a 4.5k brand new CRF250L or similar it certainly doesnt work out cheaper.
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