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| Darkzentai |
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 Darkzentai L Plate Warrior
Joined: 27 Nov 2019 Karma : 
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| Nobby the Bastard |
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 Nobby the Bastard Harley Gaydar

Joined: 16 Aug 2013 Karma :  
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| Polarbear |
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 Polarbear Super Spammer

Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Karma :  
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 Posted: 19:42 - 18 Dec 2019 Post subject: |
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I very much doubt you have even approached the limits of grip with modern tyres on a two wheeled motorcycle unless you have panic braked a non ABS bike on gravel or similar.
As a rider of 40 years I struggle to see what benefits this configuration brings. The front end will be heavy and complicated. I do wonder if it's a psychological thing that 3 wheels are better than two.
Saying that, as I have never ridden one I'm not really in a position to criticise so if you are happy,
But if you really like those things, pass your test, be a man and buy...
https://i2.wp.com/tfortrends.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Yamaha_06.jpg?fit=1000%2C750 ____________________ Triumph Trophy Launch Edition |
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| RAYK47 |
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 RAYK47 Nitrous Nuisance
Joined: 29 Nov 2018 Karma :     
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| Darkzentai |
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 Darkzentai L Plate Warrior
Joined: 27 Nov 2019 Karma : 
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 Posted: 20:06 - 18 Dec 2019 Post subject: |
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| Polarbear wrote: | I very much doubt you have even approached the limits of grip with modern tyres on a two wheeled motorcycle unless you have panic braked a non ABS bike on gravel or similar.
As a rider of 40 years I struggle to see what benefits this configuration brings. The front end will be heavy and complicated. I do wonder if it's a psychological thing that 3 wheels are better than two.
Saying that, as I have never ridden one I'm not really in a position to criticise so if you are happy,
But if you really like those things, pass your test, be a man and buy...
https://i2.wp.com/tfortrends.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Yamaha_06.jpg?fit=1000%2C750 |
I love the Niken this is my dream bike .
It not so much panic breaking as that will make it slip but It just corners a lot better than anything I’ve ridden especially in the wet or places you know to be slippery where my old bikes would aquaplane this just carries on without a care .
It is heavier but what makes the difference is you’ve got two tires at the front giving you more grip.
There may be a psychological element to it as well. ____________________ Zentai |
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| stinkwheel |
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 stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist

Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :    
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| Darkzentai |
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 Darkzentai L Plate Warrior
Joined: 27 Nov 2019 Karma : 
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| Teflon-Mike |
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 Teflon-Mike tl;dr

Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Karma :    
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 Posted: 21:57 - 18 Dec 2019 Post subject: |
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It's a twist and go scooter... with an extra wheel...
The classic scooter as defined by the Vespa, was and remains a mule of design. It was an attempt to make a motorbike with 'some' of the user-friendliness of a car... but dynamically? It gave little or none of the luggage/passenger carrying capacity of the car, none of it's weather protection, and lost virtually all of the possible 'stability' a bike might have by starting with daftly small wheels... and they have been trying to overcome 'that' pretty fundamental design flaw with ever more convoluted technological tong twisters for three quarters of a century!!!
This and machines like it are pretty good examples of marketing over merit!!!
But if you like it... and can afford it.... what the heck.....
BUT DO NOT try and repeat or justify the sales hype here to us and folks like us that see it not as a marvel of mechanics, but for what it is, an evolved design donkey that's neither fish nor foul.
It's a 12bhp four stroke 125 scooter... with a twist and go transmission for folk that cant handle gears, and an extra wheel to pander to them afraid of falling over!
At BEST with 12bhp, a 125 might just nudge a genuine 70mph... just.... in scooter styling with the aerodynamics of a mars-bar, plus the drag of an unnecessary extra wheel? Yup, you MIGHT see 68 or 70mph on the speedo occasionally... but I seriously doubt it would achieve that over the measured mile in a proper two way timed top-speed test.
As for aqua-planing, yup you might aquaplane at as little as 20mph.... why this should be a problem? Learn to ride, and get results with technique not technology... Yup. Aqua-planing happens when the wheel; traps surface water beneath the tyre and starts to 'float' on that water, rather than grip tarmac beneath.... having an extra wheel here actually wont help!
You have a bike, with weight it puts that weight on the tyre and if there's water under the tyre, it'sinks' until tyre touches tarmac. Adding an extra wheel, just shares the weight on an extra point of contact, so that there's less pressure on the tyre to push it through the water and find grip on the tarmac beneath.... it does NOT give you any extra 'grip'... and certainly not from diddly little commuter compound scooter tyres, compared to a soft compound motorbike tyre, which around 20" rolling diameter compared to 14" or so for a scooter hoop, has a shallower 'approach angle' more inclined to NOT build up the wall of water under the tyre to begin with.... like I said, its a heck of a lot of technology being chucked at 'non-problems' to over come basic design inadequacies, and appease marketing men and numpties (like you!) in the street.
The main selling point of these things when they first appeared in the form of the Piaggio MP3, was that with wheel spacers to get the front track width out above reg, they 'might' be ridden, without L-Plates on a car licence as a 3-wheeler.....
It is NOT some astounding bit of design, or a particularly great motorcycle, and has virtucally NO advantages by dint of it's extra front wheel, over even a more conventional two wheeled twist and go scooter, let alone a 'propper' motorbike, other than they can charge more money for it on the show-room, on the fallacies you have fallen for. Congratulations...
B-U-T is you like it and it makes you happy.... great.... just don't try conning US with the sales chit YOU fell for.... it wont wash! ____________________ My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| stinkwheel |
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 stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist

Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :    
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 Posted: 23:55 - 18 Dec 2019 Post subject: |
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| Darkzentai wrote: | it would do 68mph but you can aquaplane at 35mph .
Regardless I could feel the front wheel slip on corners in heavy wet . |
You may have lost traction but not by aquaplaning. That 35mph is the conservative advice for a worst-case scenario in a car regurgitated across the internet and based on research on aeroplane tyres in the 1950's.
Bikes have a radically different contact patch shape. A sportsbike with a 120 section tyre has to be doing over 60mph to start having a risk of aquaplaning.
Also the rear would aquaplane plane first due to the larger contact patch/lower load per unit area.
In fact, a double tyre would probably make you MORE likely to aquaplane.
So your issue is grip. That's all about contact patch size and tyre compound. Yes, a dual wheel has more grip. Twice as much in fact. However your last bike probably had crappy tyres. It's a really unfortunate feature of the motorcycle industry that they put shit rubber on bikes designed for learners.
Pass your test, get a bike big enough to stick some PR5s on and find out what a proper tyre can do on a wet road.
Video for inspiration. Note how some of these guys do aquaplane and come off. Also note how it's the rear wheel every time. They manage to keep it together a lot of the time and that's because it's the rear letting go, the retain some directional control fron the front. If your front wheel aquaplaned in a corner, you would be off the bike, it would lose ALL grip and you'd lowside immediately, rider input would not correct the situation.
https://youtu.be/tv4_425K8r4 ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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| Riejufixing |
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 Riejufixing World Chat Champion

Joined: 24 Jun 2018 Karma :   
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| Easy-X |
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 Easy-X Super Spammer

Joined: 08 Mar 2019 Karma :   
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 Posted: 01:00 - 19 Dec 2019 Post subject: |
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There is a good use for such a scooter: give it to Randy Grubb...
https://randygrubb.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Deco-Bipod-B-with-randy-grubb.jpg
As far as I can tell the only benefit is not having to stick a leg out when stationary which is genuinely useful if you have mobility issues but still want a bike. Mechanically it's very complex though, i.e. extremely expensive to fix if things go wrong. Plus you have to factor in an extra tyre to pay for when they wear out  ____________________ Royal Enfield Continental GT 535, Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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| stinkwheel |
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 stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist

Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :    
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| Riejufixing |
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 Riejufixing World Chat Champion

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| Sister Sledge |
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 Sister Sledge World Chat Champion

Joined: 17 Aug 2018 Karma :   
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| Polarbear |
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 Polarbear Super Spammer

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| WD Forte |
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 WD Forte World Chat Champion

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| WD Forte |
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 WD Forte World Chat Champion

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 Riejufixing World Chat Champion

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| stinkwheel |
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 stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist

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 Sister Sledge World Chat Champion

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| Evil Hans |
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 Evil Hans World Chat Champion

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| Polarbear |
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 Polarbear Super Spammer

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| andyscooter |
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 andyscooter World Chat Champion

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| Easy-X |
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 Easy-X Super Spammer

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| iooi |
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 iooi Super Spammer

Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Karma :    
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 Posted: 12:38 - 21 Dec 2019 Post subject: |
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https://youtu.be/FjKpuJOlkZc
Aquaplaning in the extream.
TBH. Depth of water makes a lot of difference compared to speed, contact patch etc. ____________________ Just because my bike was A DIVVY, does not mean i am...... |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 6 years, 82 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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