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which oil for my kawasaki en500?..

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colb
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PostPosted: 23:09 - 20 Sep 2005    Post subject: which oil for my kawasaki en500?.. Reply with quote

I have finally fixed my kawasaki en500 and put her back on the road after 2 years , before I do any serious milage or damage to the 1992 engine I think I better change the oil and filter.

Can any one advise me which oil to use?
the haynes manual specifies I should use either mineral or synthetic

A few people have told me to use semi synthetic which I have never heard of as sythetic is not suitible for standard road bikes.
seemingly it causes clutch slip

yet the haynes book says to use synthetic?!
The bike is a light custom cruiser and I am now a fair weather rider only doing approx 2k miles per year

anyone give me a definate answer which oil to use at all?
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dodsi
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PostPosted: 23:20 - 20 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good quality 10W40 should do.

Something like Motul or Putoline.

I use sport 4 semi synthetic stuff In my bandit, its about £25 for 4 litres but its decent stuff.
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colb
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PostPosted: 23:28 - 20 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

so whats the difference between semi synthetic and synthetic?
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iCraig
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PostPosted: 11:17 - 21 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Price, and the recommended application.

I personally wouldn't put Fully Synthetic in anything other than a high performance sports bike.

Semi synth is good in bikes that are 'normal' and cheaper. Smile
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feef
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PostPosted: 11:23 - 21 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

10w40 regular or semi synth.

Fully synth can cause clutch slip, yes..

a
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 13:09 - 21 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

feef wrote:


Fully synth can cause clutch slip, yes..

a


No. Worn clutchs cause ckutch slip.
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Trixie
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PostPosted: 13:13 - 21 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

For a 1992 engine, either mineral or semi synthetic should be fine. As people have already said, a good quality multigrade 10w40 will be fine.

Also, don't scrimp with the oil filter. There probably won't be much difference between the price of a pattern part and the original - get the original if you can, even if it is at a little more cost. Deffo worth it! Thumbs Up
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feef
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PostPosted: 13:23 - 21 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:
feef wrote:


Fully synth can cause clutch slip, yes..

a


No. Worn clutchs cause ckutch slip.


nope, not just that.. super slippy synthetic oil on wet clutches can cause clutch slip unles you have uprated clutch springs.

at least that's what I've been told by more than one dealer and service center. Why would they lose money on a sale by selling cheaper oil, if there wasn't some reasoning behind it.

I can find as much evidence to say clutch slip is contributed to by synth oil, as I can tpo say it makes no difference.. so everything ele being equal, why spend the extra when regular oil does the job just as well?

most oils over and above regular mineral or semi synth is all marketing anyway, and of course your bike "runs way better now I put fully synth in" you just changed the oil.. Any oil is better than old oil.

a
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 13:32 - 21 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

I put 50k miles on a GPZ500s using castrol GTX and flogging it mercilessly, with an oil and filter change every 3k miles. The engine is still fine, just the rest of the bike is falling apart now (crashed too often, never washed and ridden through the winter). Same engine as yours but tuned to produce 10% more power.

Gericke do a deal where you get a free oil and air filter when you buy 5 litres of Motoul engine oil (about £24 all in). Worth having, and motoul is a pretty well regarded make of oil.
As a point of interest, the original kawasaki oil filters are often cheaper than the pattern ones. Strange but true!
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 17:54 - 21 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

feef wrote:

nope, not just that.. super slippy synthetic oil on wet clutches can cause clutch slip unles you have uprated clutch springs.

at least that's what I've been told by more than one dealer and service center. Why would they lose money on a sale by selling cheaper oil, if there wasn't some reasoning behind it.

I can find as much evidence to say clutch slip is contributed to by synth oil, as I can tpo say it makes no difference.. so everything ele being equal, why spend the extra when regular oil does the job just as well?

most oils over and above regular mineral or semi synth is all marketing anyway, and of course your bike "runs way better now I put fully synth in" you just changed the oil.. Any oil is better than old oil.



I'm afraid I'm gonna disagree with most of what you say.

Full synth gets up to temp quicker than semi, resists shear better and tends to have better cling.

Synth is not particularly more slippy than semi but clings better so in relation to a clutch plates if the springs or plates are worn the oil has less pressure to displace it then the clutch slips.

You believe dealers? Most dealers don't keep stock of full synth as it's to expensive.

As to the marketing comment on which data do you base this?
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colb
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PostPosted: 19:08 - 21 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
Same engine as yours but tuned to produce 10% more power.



does that mean gpz accessories will fit the en500 engine as I am looking for engine bars for the en and cant find any one who produces them any more, that way could fit gpz bars?

I have a hi flo filter I purchased, I have been told this is a good make still not sure about the oil..
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 19:36 - 21 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Engine bars usually bolt to the frame rather than the engine itself. The frames are different.

Oil, any good quality 10w-40 or 20w-50 engine oil should be fine providing: a) You change it every 3,000 miles and b) It doesn't have fancy additives (eg magnatech). They have been making those engines for the last 22 years, pretty much any oil you buy these days will be higher spec than the stuff it ws designed to run on.
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colb
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PostPosted: 19:45 - 21 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks stinkwheel, that pretty much simplifies it for me.
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feef
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PostPosted: 01:17 - 22 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:

You believe dealers? Most dealers don't keep stock of full synth as it's to expensive.
in one instance, one of these dealers only had synth in stock, and was frustrated that he couldn't get enough semi/mineral.

Quote:
As to the marketing comment on which data do you base this?


based on an aquaintance in the petroleum industry specialising in lubrication.. yes what you've said is all tru about cling and operating temps, but the actual difference in performance and life is marginal in the average engine. Some research they had been doing showed that the same engines built to a better tollerance performed better and more efficiently on regular oil, than an average engine on fully synth.

there IS a difference, you're right.. it's just not a practical,nor noticeable one for us mere mortals who aren't running cutting edge, highly tuned, well toleranced engines.

a
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G
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PostPosted: 03:21 - 22 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apparantly EBC clutch plates are less resistant to different types of oils, when the bike doesn't normally take that type in comparison to most OE plates.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 13:18 - 22 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

feef wrote:

Some research they had been doing showed that the same engines built to a better tollerance performed better and more efficiently on regular oil, than an average engine on fully synth.


But this isn't comparing like with like. I rebuild my engines to tight tolerances and it has been shown that a good tight tolerance engine runs better on full synth than semi-synth.

feef wrote:

there IS a difference, you're right.. it's just not a practical,nor noticeable one for us mere mortals who aren't running cutting edge, highly tuned, well toleranced engines.


Some of us actually run good tight tolerance engines on the road, I have one bike, GSXR750L that had a complete strip and rebuild 3000mls ago including new main and big end shells, cam-chain, skimmed and flowed head including new valve, seals and guides and dialled in cams.Every service the head comes off as well as the barrels to check the tolerances as well as pressure testing the oil pump, last service included new rings as they were slightly worn although not smoking.

I agree that most bikes wouldn't see the difference between synth and semi-synth but most new sports bikes in my opinion would as the tolerances are very tight.
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feef
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PostPosted: 13:23 - 22 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:
feef wrote:

Some research they had been doing showed that the same engines built to a better tollerance performed better and more efficiently on regular oil, than an average engine on fully synth.


But this isn't comparing like with like. I rebuild my engines to tight tolerances and it has been shown that a good tight tolerance engine runs better on full synth than semi-synth.


no it isn't.. but it does make the point that tolerances and build quality make a bigger differnce than oil selection.

Quote:


Some of us actually run good tight tolerance engines on the road

--------8<--------<snip>--------8<-------

I agree that most bikes wouldn't see the difference between synth and semi-synth but most new sports bikes in my opinion would as the tolerances are very tight.


most new sports bike, as new, yes.. but not everyone maintains their bike like you do.. you're certainly in a minority....

for the majority of bikes out there.. I still belioeve my comment stands, as does yours for those bikes that are technically able to make the differnce apparent.

a
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