Open Doors in 2007 for Romania and Bulgaria to UK....

[Andy C]

I was at work today and was reading the independent (the artical HERE ). The headline of today was about when Romainia and Bulgeria Join the EU that Government are think of putting no limits on the amount of immagrents that come to work.

Now, the artical was quite imformal and said that 1% of economic great is due to immagrent workers and that Gordon Brown wouldnt have met his for economic growth target without it.

HOWEVER, the government massively under-estimated the amount of Polish now in UK and they thought it was tens of thousands and is nearer 600,000. Their are not more Polish in UK than in Warsaw.

They say that there workers will fill gaps in the labour market but these gaps surely have been made due to immagrent workers prepared to work for a lot less than UK residents. This can be seen due to unemployment in UK rising meaning more are being supported while immagrents taking their Jobs.

Im not racists and hope that this thread is not seen as that way, i just think that the reasons that these gaps are in the labour market because of immagrents able to work for a lot less.

Please comment....
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[c-m]

I don't see how they are able to work for a lot less when the minimum wage will still be enforced. And also work for a lot less then who? the currently unemplyed, students, under 18s?


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[Andy C]

[tatters]

[Cazza]

It isn't necessarily a case of "able" to work for less as much as "willing" to work for less. But then... they are also willing to live 10 persons in a small 2 bed flat! I know a lad who works here got caught by his landlord letting about 5 of them sleep on his living room floor!
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[killa]

More effort should have been put into the 'scummers' you lot talk about, trying to get them into jobs, moral is low enough with them the government are seen to be offering their kind hand towards criminals and foriegners.

This isn't going to boost moral with the lower classes they'll see this as the begining of the end.

I'm not fussed because i've done alright for myself and no foriegners are going to be getting my jobs, they might be willing to work for peanuts but they are going to have to work to the bone to get into something technical.

Edit:- Just to add Romania and Bulgaria are not known for their exquisite tastes, the countries are run by the lowest of the low, and they are dam good at what they do.
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[Annabella]

I would imagine most Polish people go through the correct procedures to work. Killa - your girlfriend works in recruitment, I'm sure she's seen an increase of Eastern European people applying for jobs.

Laura mentioned that she had a consistant group of Polish people on her books who are always available to work that day, turn up at the right place at the right time and work hard all day.

There are jobs available, there is a big gap in our workforce which people like the 'scummers' killa mentioned don't want to take them. It would be a lovely ideal that people on benefits had to work for them (provided they are fit and well).
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[killa]

[Cazza]

I don't think that the Polish, or any other foreigners for that matter, have anything to do with the gaps in the job markets. They are merely willing to come and do the jobs that most UK residents will not do.

At our factory we have a number of Czechs & Poles working on the shop floor; they're always on time, work hard, requesting overtime and willing to cover at the drop of a hat. When you compare them to some of the other workers that start (i.e. 19 - 25 yr olds) that are UK residents there's no wonder Personnel opts for the foreigners - our lot are sloppy, rude, no timekeeping, unkempt and basically have no desire to work for the money they get and don't come back after a couple of shifts (this is the reason for the gaps in the labour market).

This is not to say I agree with the whole thing because, as Killa and I already pointed out, their standard of living is much lower than ours - this in itself is likely to bring standards down throughout the country.
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[plugger147]

People in this country used to work hard when they had to, now they know they can sit at home have there rent, council tax paid and a nice little handout for doing nothing. Lowering benefits and teaching people some self respect is the only way this counrty is going to fill the jobs that the eastern europeans will do.
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[ncrn]

Im not supprised that there are a lot of jobs going to poles and other workers, the polish people that work with me are some of the best staff, they work hard, they do their jobs right, they are always there if you need some extra staff, and they put up with some inconviniences at the start of the job (like emptying bins all day), because they know if they work hard enough they will get treated better (and they do)

i've seen a lot of english people start, found the work too hard, quit a week later, people that if they coulda been assed coulda got somewhere.

if it wasnt for migrant workers we'd have a massive gap in the service industry, now if only they all spoke better english we'd be fine
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[Cazza]

[killa]

[plugger147]

[Andy C]

[Spiral]

Kick em all out!!!
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[Didge]

From Migration Watch UK:-

August 29, 2006
An optimum level for immigration

The Home Secretary has recently suggested that an optimum level for immigration might be established. A Migrationwatch research paper (Read) suggests some criteria.

Immigration is of long term benefit to the economy only if it raises the overall level of productivity; otherwise, it simply adds to the pressure on infrastructure and public services. Migrationwatch therefore calls for long term economic migration to be confined to the very highly skilled. Less skilled workers can make a valuable contribution by filling gaps while British workers are trained but they should not be allowed to settle permanently.

Migrationwatch research, based on data from the Government's own Labour Force Survey, shows that a worker must earn £27,000 a year to make a positive lifetime contribution, whether measured by the tax paid or by the addition to GDP. This, in fact, is the average salary for full time employment. Only about 20% of migrants reach this salary level.

"The Government and its supporters repeatedly trot out favourable looking statistics which seek to give the impression that immigration in general has a very positive effect on the UK economy", said Sir Andrew Green, Chairman Migrationwatch. "The reality is that immigrants are extremely varied. A minority are highly skilled and highly paid but a large majority will end up as a cost to the taxpayer if they settle here permanently. The same applies to the British population since higher earners pay most of the tax bill. The crucial difference is that we can, and should, choose which work related migrants are to be allowed to settle in the UK".

Migrationwatch therefore propose that, apart from those granted asylum and those coming to Britain for family formation and reunion, only the highly skilled who are filling a vacancy which cannot be filled by EEA citizens and with a salary of more than the average of £27,000 a year, should be allowed to settle in the UK. Other skilled migrants from outside the EU, who earn a salary lower than this threshold should only be allowed into the UK on a temporary basis to provide a short term solution to labour market gaps while a British worker is trained. The present chaos over finding jobs for British trained nurses illustrates the problems of using long term immigration to meet short term staffing problems.

As for unskilled migrants, the Government now acknowledges that there is no reason to bring them to Britain, given the large number of East European workers now available to fill these positions.

"To most people the measures we are suggesting are simple common sense. This research demonstrates once more that there is no economic case for massive immigration into the UK. The Home Secretary is right to say that we need to balance economic gain against social costs. The social costs of the present massive levels of immigration, including their impact on infrastructure and public services, far outweigh any possible benefit," said Sir Andrew.

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/pressreleases/pressreleases.asp?dt=14-August-2006#142

[colin1]

sounds like migration watch talks a lot of bollocks

immigrants are only valuable if they get paid £27000 ? nonsense

obvisouly the more high value ones we get the better but

if they work here for 30 years and only pay £3000 in tax a year, thats still £3000 a year our government wouldnt have got otherwise, and i bet they wont make use of £90000 of services while they are here

we have an ageing population that are all turning into pensioners so we need more tax payers
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[Didge]

[lilredmachine]

[Didge]

[edd]

Personally I dont really see the problem. People who sit at home saying that immigrants are "stealing their jobs" are morons. Immigrants are not stealing their jobs, they are failing to be more employable than immigrants who have had much less advantage.
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[gavin]

all of this is missing the point. we have much more to fear than migrant workers.

its no coincidence that the population of the newly expanded europe is now roughly the same as that of china.

in this world of gloalization, its all about growth and income per capita. what happens on your street or in your town is largely unimportant, so long as europe as a whole maintains its position against the onslaught of the East, since it has embraced capitalism.

[kawakid]

I have no problem with christian imigrants, in 10-20 years they will be fully integrated, just look at people who settled after the 2nd world war.

I was at a local real ale pub the other day and there were 2 polish people drinking there, good for them. Thats positive immigration in my book. Not like some muslim immigrants.

[thinkingabout...]

If people pay their way, what does it matter? The problem is that the EU is having to take Roma and other such people who have not the slightest intention of honest work. I think the EU, and even the US government of all people, was in the habit of criticising Slovakia and others for discrimination against them - I think now there is some realisation why the Roma are not entirely liked. Poles and others by contrast work hard, many, probably most, will go home once there is employment available at home, and if they stay, they won't be noticeable within a generation. They tend not to beg and don't have a sneaking regard for jihad, coupled with an egotistical over-developed sense of grievance. East Europeans (though they don't like being referred to as that) will not be a problem to any country that takes them. The work (simple office work, agriculture and catering) they take does not always have local takers. Anyhow business wants cheap labour. What it wants, it gets.