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Walloper |
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Walloper Super Spammer
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Louise |
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Louise World Chat Champion
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bazza |
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bazza World Chat Champion
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Walloper |
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Walloper Super Spammer
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mchaggis |
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mchaggis World Chat Champion
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Walloper |
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Walloper Super Spammer
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Posted: 15:39 - 29 Oct 2006 Post subject: |
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[quote="mchaggis[/quote]
What mchaggis said. ____________________ W-ireless A-rtificial L-ifeform L-imited to O-bservation P-eacekeeping and E-fficient R-epair |
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natv4 |
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natv4 Brolly Dolly
Joined: 31 Dec 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 20:39 - 29 Oct 2006 Post subject: |
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Walloper wrote: | If one's action affects others in a detrimental way then I would hope someone could have powers to intervene and try to prevent the incident in the first place.
Whether it helps or not is the debate.
I think, personally, it's a good idea to ride with lights on.
I do not think it's a good thing that legislation is frequently required for matters concerning our safety.
But then common sense is a rare thing these days. | Walloper, whilst I understand your viewpoint, I just don't think this is a situation where one's actions affect others in a detrimental way.
Automatic Lights on appears to be brought in to protect us from the inabilities of others. I think that is quite a distinction. This will only benefit (apart from the rider) other people whom should be doing a better job anyway. I manage see cars that are running with lights off in the day, I wonder if its because it may kill me? Are you suggesting that by colliding with them because they were not paying enough attention is our fault for not being conspicuous enough? It is their sole responsibility, just as it is ours to keep ourselves alive by trying to avoid this.
As others have already stated; the optimum solution for being visible throughout the day, is to have the option to run with lights off but to normally run with lights on. So this legislation is going to reduce visibility in certain situations for many experienced riders without any benefits.
Why legislate for something that does this?
Surely legislation should be brought in to improve a situation. This may help for some people (the very dim - pun intended) but even relatively new riders seem to know that they should ride with lights on. So again why legislate? This should be part of rider training, not legislation. ____________________ Travelling around the world...a bit at a time. Where am I now? / Visit my BLOG
Bike: Blue Honda VFR800fi (*NEW*) Mileage: 22k Countries visited: GB/F/D/CZ/PL/E/I/B/A/HR/H/Rus/E/MA
West Europe...2004, East Europe...2005, Russia/France...2006, Morocco...2007 |
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natv4 |
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natv4 Brolly Dolly
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Walloper |
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Walloper Super Spammer
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mchaggis |
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mchaggis World Chat Champion
Joined: 10 May 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 23:19 - 29 Oct 2006 Post subject: |
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To put it simply, if I see a headlamp, I think Bike! If every vehicle has a headlamp on, I just stop seeing anything special.
Cars having headlamps on will make precious little difference to them. They aren't exactly high risk road users so haven't that much to gain. If every vehicle has headlamps on, bikes will lose the advantage of having the lights on as they won't be noticed any more. ____________________ I must not be a troll...
Mmmm, Guinness
Discovering the delights of Hammerite and a 3/4" brush. |
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bazza |
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bazza World Chat Champion
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mooky |
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mooky Nitrous Nuisance
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Kickstart |
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Kickstart The Oracle
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Walloper |
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Walloper Super Spammer
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bazza |
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bazza World Chat Champion
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Walloper |
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Walloper Super Spammer
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dew |
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dew Trackday Trickster
Joined: 26 Sep 2006 Karma :
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Posted: 17:07 - 30 Oct 2006 Post subject: |
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I just picked up my ninja and hv not even an option to switch off the headlight. Though am more visible 'cos there r two smaller lights as well, which makes it distinct then what was shown in the pic (in front of SUV)...
Personally i would hv switched it on anyway, but this now stops me forgetting about it. ____________________ Theory: 34/35, 64/75 Test: 23-Oct-06 PASSED (No minors)
Current: Ninja ZX- 6R Future: ??? |
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Zen Dog |
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Zen Dog World Chat Champion
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Posted: 21:41 - 30 Oct 2006 Post subject: |
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Er, so what does this prove? That you should constantly pay attention to whether the car behind you has its lights on or not, and do the opposite? Very silly.
I have my lights on all the time anyway, but i'd like to be able to turn them off in a crap battery/knackered alternator situation, so i'd prefer the choice myself.
Zen Dog ____________________ Current - '94 VFR750FR, '00 VFR800FI Previous - '10 Street Triple R, '92 MZ ETZ301, '05 TTR250, NSR125R, KMX125, "Honda" Win (chinese copy of an old Honda design with a C90 engine)
My bike trip around S.E. Asia 2010/2011 |
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mchaggis |
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mchaggis World Chat Champion
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Posted: 21:53 - 30 Oct 2006 Post subject: |
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Zen Dog wrote: |
Er, so what does this prove? That you should constantly pay attention to whether the car behind you has its lights on or not, and do the opposite? Very silly.
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Force the car and the bike to have lights on all the time, and you won't have the choice.
You simply won't notice a vehicle with lights on as anything other than being a vehicle with lights on, and won't make a distinction between bikes and cars. Normally if I see something with lights on in the day, I think Bike! When everyone has lights on, things with lights on aren't unusual so there's not necessarily any extra attention paid to them.
I choose when to put my lights on, according to the situation I'm in. It isn't always safest to have them on. I'd like it to keep the choice. ____________________ I must not be a troll...
Mmmm, Guinness
Discovering the delights of Hammerite and a 3/4" brush. |
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Walloper |
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Walloper Super Spammer
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Yosemity Sam |
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Yosemity Sam Derestricted Danger
Joined: 24 Aug 2006 Karma :
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Posted: 00:31 - 31 Oct 2006 Post subject: how to be noticed? |
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Sound advice from 'down under' so to speak:
If you go to the following link, it sums up our views (click on generic)
https://www.pleaselooktwice.com/ |
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Walloper |
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Walloper Super Spammer
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Posted: 14:39 - 31 Oct 2006 Post subject: |
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Spin time.....
In the pic both the vehicles are parked.
A driver sitting at a junction will/should notice a shape that is moving against a fixed background
sooner/more easily than a stationary object against the same background.
If the car is behind the bike the two vehicles would move and bounce at different times as they head down the road.
That being so, it would mean that either there is something weird happening to the light of that R/rover or there is something infront.
So the driver looking at that image coming towards him should notice 'the unusual', hesitate and make sure it's safe to pull out.
Just some conjecture for t' pot. ____________________ W-ireless A-rtificial L-ifeform L-imited to O-bservation P-eacekeeping and E-fficient R-epair |
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natv4 |
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natv4 Brolly Dolly
Joined: 31 Dec 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 00:45 - 02 Nov 2006 Post subject: |
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Walloper wrote: | So the driver looking at that image coming towards him should notice 'the unusual', hesitate and make sure it's safe to pull out. | I'm afraid I may well have spotted a problem with your muse. Drivers do not tend to look for a period of time. The general consensus seems to be to glance (snapshot) a couple of times. While this does normally show movement, I doubt it would provide the detail required to notice the effect you describe.
Of course I may be wrong and all drivers may be brilliant at observation. Was it not yourself that suggested we should do everything we can to ensure we are seen?
Zen Dog wrote: | Er, so what does this prove? That you should constantly pay attention to whether the car behind you has its lights on or not, and do the opposite? Very silly | Not at all, this thread is a little crossed. The image is to show that compulsory daytime lights on for ALL vehicles will mean that bikes are significantly less visible. It is in argument against forcing all vehicles to do this. In an ideal world, you would be able to notice your surroundings and maximise your visibility accordingly, but practically I tend to only switch off at day break (for an hour or so) if I'm riding away from the sun (maybe a dozen times a year). ____________________ Travelling around the world...a bit at a time. Where am I now? / Visit my BLOG
Bike: Blue Honda VFR800fi (*NEW*) Mileage: 22k Countries visited: GB/F/D/CZ/PL/E/I/B/A/HR/H/Rus/E/MA
West Europe...2004, East Europe...2005, Russia/France...2006, Morocco...2007 |
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Walloper |
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Walloper Super Spammer
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Posted: 22:31 - 02 Nov 2006 Post subject: |
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natv4 wrote: | Walloper wrote: | So the driver looking at that image coming towards him should notice 'the unusual', hesitate and make sure it's safe to pull out. | I'm afraid I may well have spotted a problem with your muse. Drivers do not tend to look for a period of time. The general consensus seems to be to glance (snapshot) a couple of times. While this does normally show movement, I doubt it would provide the detail required to notice the effect you describe.
Of course I may be wrong and all drivers may be brilliant at observation. Was it not yourself that suggested we should do everything we can to ensure we are seen? |
Na na na na na na.......
You knew, of course, that I knew, that they knew, that the driver new, the biker knew!
I allways assume (makes an ass of u & me.) that 'they' are out to get me.
It's the safest way to ride.
I was only 'spinning' as suggested in the post.
The 'Spin' being that the original argument states, loosely, that if we all have our lights on us bikers will blend into insignificance.
I do not dispute that theory.
My argument is: The theory is not hard and fast.
There are more factors than those hi-lighted (No Pun).
ie weather cond. time of day, speed of bike. amount of traffic, background activity. (Busy/Plain) and cetera.
I think years ago there were 'some' accidents because bikes did not use daytime lights. (Other accidents too, for other reasons.)
There was some argument, maybe around the same time, that said "the statistical evidence suggested that Sweden had reduced accidents by using daytime lights on cars".
Did this information influence the adoption of the same 'rule' for bikes?
DAS in UK train new riders to use lights in daytime.
Anolo-G
Like reflective vests.
I used one for about two weeks after pass then flung it in the cupboard.
The car drivers see you 'EYE-BALL YOU' but do not give a fuck and pull out anyway as you present 'zero' danger to them.
If you were driving a 38 ton Artic. they would politely wait.
I will continue to drive with my lights on and anoy others as normal.
On aproach to junctions it's handy to weave and cause the 'Hunter' instincts of the car driver to be alerted to you.
Doesn't work with women drivers tho.... ____________________ W-ireless A-rtificial L-ifeform L-imited to O-bservation P-eacekeeping and E-fficient R-epair |
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kawakid |
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kawakid World Chat Champion
Joined: 15 Mar 2005 Karma :
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 17 years, 181 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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