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Apprantly leaning a bike too far is illegal

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DEN MONKEY
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PostPosted: 09:47 - 29 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be curious and ask for a definition of "too far" and insist on knowing where the specifications of such a law are documented.
Was the weight of the bike considered, your position in the seat, the style of bike and a number of other things that are going to affect your lean angle.
Of course that would come after I tried the polite angle.

Since you got let go I'd suggest he was just taking the piss and trying to get you to take it easy (his opinion) rather than having anything substantial to snot ya with.
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extreme3d
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PostPosted: 11:53 - 29 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jack_Cheese wrote:
I'm not going to lay into the copper at all because i'm sure there are plenty of weekend warriors who need to be calmed down. Being on the edge of your tyre puts you at a higher risk of losing it mid corner, a risk which directly affects other road users and pedestrians if it goes tits-up, so i think the copper was right to have pulled you over.

There's a difference between the speed limit and an apropriate speed for a certain stretch of road.

Jack


For a non-biker in a car, they see a bike going around a corner leaning over as 'un-natural' and 'dangerous'. To the biker he/she's just calmly going around a bend. How many time's have you asked someone if they want to go pillion? The most common response is "but I might fall off going round a bend".

You then have to convince them it doesn't work like that. That's fine as they wouldn't be expected to know. But I would expect the police who uphold the laws of our road to know....

To say he was leaning over to far is plain stupid. Lean angle as we all know has nothing to do with speed but the tightness of the bend. Again I wouldn't expect your hopefull pillion to know. But I would expect the police who uphold the laws of our road to know....

Ask any biker 'is it right to slide the back wheel to get around a bend' and he/she will laugh and stay no.... and point you to dirt riding. You wouldn't expect your pillion to know this, nor would you expect her to recognise a slide. But I would expect the police who uphold the laws of our road to know....
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 12:05 - 29 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd love to have seen him follow an old Z650 round the same corner. They only have two angles of lean. Upright, and pipes down. They flop between the two.
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chalky143
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PostPosted: 12:54 - 29 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

they pull you over for anything these days Rolling Eyes They need to get there facts straight and not pull you over because they feel like it

silly coppers

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colezxr
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PostPosted: 13:01 - 29 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

ive had this before aswell but i got a asbo for doing it Laughing i couldnt work out what i was doing wrong, he started going on that if there was a deisel spill there i would have come off, but theres a good chance that i could of lost it if i wasnt leaning either Confused
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Jack_Cheese
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PostPosted: 15:03 - 29 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

tatters wrote:
Jack_Cheese wrote:
I'm not going to lay into the copper at all because i'm sure there are plenty of weekend warriors who need to be calmed down. Being on the edge of your tyre puts you at a higher risk of losing it mid corner, a risk which directly affects other road users and pedestrians if it goes tits-up, so i think the copper was right to have pulled you over.

There's a difference between the speed limit and an apropriate speed for a certain stretch of road.

Jack



First of all l,m not a "weekend warrior" l do over 300-400 miles a week and have owned 14 bikes over the past few years and my bikes are my only form of transport.

I wasn,t leaning the bike any more than what was required, l was on my way home after a long week at work wearing jeans and a jacket and was riding normally just like anyone else if l really wanted to throw the bike around and seroiusly lean it over l would of had my leathers on and my silders would be getting some use.


I didn't refer to you as a weekend warrior, i merely stated that i'm sure there are plenty of riders who need to be calmed down. the only reason i calmed down was because i ripped my knee open, and 10 weeks after the crash, it still hasn't full healed.

I also didn't lay into your riding style, i assumed you were going at a comfortable pace for the corner, and consequently leaning quite far, apologies if my assumption caused you any offence, but chances are you're just miffed because i didn't jump on the "yeah, all coppers are twats for picking on bikers!" bandwagon.

Quote:
To say he was leaning over to far is plain stupid. Lean angle as we all know has nothing to do with speed but the tightness of the bend. Again I wouldn't expect your hopefull pillion to know. But I would expect the police who uphold the laws of our road to know....


The further you lean, the higher the lateral loading of the tyre, and consequently it becomes easier for the tyre to lose grip, that's why leaning further is dangerous. when was the last time you saw someone lose the rear on a corner whilst cornering in a nearly vertical position? That only really happens when someone lights up the rear tyre.

Jack
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 16:12 - 29 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jack_Cheese wrote:
The further you lean, the higher the lateral loading of the tyre, and consequently it becomes easier for the tyre to lose grip, that's why leaning further is dangerous. when was the last time you saw someone lose the rear on a corner whilst cornering in a nearly vertical position? That only really happens when someone lights up the rear tyre.


Not true. Lean is going to have virtually no effect on the lateral loading of the tyre. That is determined by the speed you go round the corner. Failing to lean while cornering is going to cause you to go straight on (except at nominal speeds where you steer). Angle of lean is just a result.

Having a go at someone for leaning too much is pointless.

All the best

Keith
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Jack_Cheese
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PostPosted: 17:28 - 29 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Angle of lean is just a result.


Exactly, but the further you lean, the faster you must be going round the corner, and grip will be reduced, there's no way you have the same level of grip whilst leaning as you do in a straight line, as siggi found out at brands hatch.

The lean and speed go hand in hand, so the copper saying you're leaning too far goes hand in hand with "Excuse me sir, you were travelling a little fast round that corner back there.".

Jack
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 17:35 - 29 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

So why didn't he say "you were going too fast"? Sounds to me more like an excuse for a pull from someone who had no knowledge of what they were saying.

The leaning is irrelevant on its own. You cannot corner above a nominal speed without leaning.

With many tyres the contact patch increases when you lean.

What next, pulling up cyclists and saying "you seem to be breathing excessively"?

All the best

Keith
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carsounds_dan
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PostPosted: 22:04 - 29 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:


What next, pulling up cyclists and saying "you seem to be breathing excessively"?


and they'll get the cylcists after that when they go for a breathaliser test and don't have enough puff... i can see a police money earner there...
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 23:39 - 29 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

carsounds_dan wrote:
Kickstart wrote:


What next, pulling up cyclists and saying "you seem to be breathing excessively"?


and they'll get the cylcists after that when they go for a breathaliser test and don't have enough puff... i can see a police money earner there...


I suppose you didn't hear about Ken Livingstons idea about putting numberplates on push bikes (and having them pay tax and insurance)
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paulodd
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PostPosted: 23:55 - 29 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been pulled for this. Was practicing KD last year (Before i could actually do it). My knee was about an inch from the floor and just came off the roundabout to see the lights in my mirrors.

Got pulled and he told me that i was stupid. Saying that i'm dangerious, shouldn't be on the road, can't ride and have no skill.

I just stood there thinking to myself...... its a warm night, theres hardly anyone around, i can obviously ride and i do have skill otherwise i wouldn't be able to pull of said manover.

He just stood there shouting at me for a good 20 mins and inculded asking if i had a family and how i would like it if he had to go and tell them i was dead and how they would feel when they look at my courpse in the church.

He wanted to do me for dangerious driving and said that if i had have gone 1mph over the speed limit he would have done me for speeding.

He also said that i should have looked in my mirrors, and pulled over as soon as he put his lights on. I said to him, that even if i did i wouldn't see him, as in one i can see road and the other sky. just thought to myself.. seriously dude, use some common sence.



Its also illegal to go round a roundabout more than 3 times, thats a joke aswell!
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 23:57 - 29 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

paulodd wrote:


Its also illegal to go round a roundabout more than 3 times, thats a joke aswell!


I'd have just thought you were lost.
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plugger147
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PostPosted: 00:07 - 30 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

paul the guy might've just had a bad day and spent half of it at a bike crash, or he was just being a twat. Laughing

lleast you didn't get a ticket. Thumbs Up
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paulodd
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PostPosted: 00:11 - 30 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

plugger147 wrote:
paul the guy might've just had a bad day and spent half of it at a bike crash, or he was just being a twat. Laughing

lleast you didn't get a ticket. Thumbs Up



I don't deny that, and I think the shock tactic is a good’n in some cases, but I thought it was a little unnecessary in this situation
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Jack_Cheese
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PostPosted: 00:56 - 30 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

the fact is you stabd more chance of losing it mid corner whilst leaning further, which means you're riding dangerously. In the coppers eyes it's an endorsable offence.

Jack
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 01:04 - 30 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jack_Cheese wrote:
the fact is you stabd more chance of losing it mid corner whilst leaning further, which means you're riding dangerously. In the coppers eyes it's an endorsable offence.


That is not fact. You stand far more chance of loosing it if you tried to take the same corner without leaning. Then you would certainly crash.

Saying that leaning = dangerous = endorsable offence is ludicrous.

All the best

Keith
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Misc
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PostPosted: 01:06 - 30 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

What else is 'illegal' when on bikes, listen to music?
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Jack_Cheese
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PostPosted: 01:22 - 30 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:
Jack_Cheese wrote:
the fact is you stabd more chance of losing it mid corner whilst leaning further, which means you're riding dangerously. In the coppers eyes it's an endorsable offence.


That is not fact. You stand far more chance of loosing it if you tried to take the same corner without leaning. Then you would certainly crash.

Saying that leaning = dangerous = endorsable offence is ludicrous.

All the best

Keith


Indeed, but in order to corner you have to lean. the further you corner, the higher the risk of you losing it. It's like powersliding a car round a corner. You may be in control, but you stand a higher risk of losing it than if you were to slow down and corner normally.

Jack
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 01:35 - 30 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is not like power sliding a car. It is like bollocking someone for turning the steering wheel too far in a car. Lean is a necessity. If he was travelling at an excessive speed then that is easy to point out and has a meaning, but no mention of that.

You have a some leeway in how much you lean for a certain corner at a certain speed. At that speed the chances of the back wheel sliding out are pretty much independent of the lean, just dependent on the speed.

Honestly it sounds like he was pulled by an incompetant copper.

Years ago I got pulled up because the "back wheel slid, is there sufficient tread". The back wheel certainly had not slid, and they were in no position to see anything anyway with how far behind they were. And the tyre was legal (although a new one was being fitted the next day ready to sell the bike). Some coppers are decent, some are idiots..

All the best

Keith
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syl
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PostPosted: 02:22 - 30 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
I suppose you didn't hear about Ken Livingstons idea about putting numberplates on push bikes (and having them pay tax and insurance)


I think that tax is a bit much, especially as kids can ride them - but insisting on insurance for cyclists is not such a bad idea. I don't like to think that if I had a serious accident because of a cyclist I would have to sue them to get recompense - and without insurance they would potentially loose their home to pay it.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 19:04 - 30 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jack_Cheese wrote:
The further you lean, the higher the lateral loading of the tyre, and consequently it becomes easier for the tyre to lose grip, that's why leaning further is dangerous. when was the last time you saw someone lose the rear on a corner whilst cornering in a nearly vertical position? That only really happens when someone lights up the rear tyre.

Leaning isn't dangerous; it's quite a good idea if you want to go around the corner.

Never seen anyone lose the rear on a corner whilst corning in a nearly vertical position as people don't corner like that, at least not those who don't want to crash.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 19:14 - 30 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen G corner without leaning on his Suzuki DR thing.

But he was sliding the rear tyre at the time! Mr. Green
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Biker-Kev
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PostPosted: 22:17 - 30 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

i got pulled by the speeders for the very same thing on thursday night.
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Johnny GSX-R
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PostPosted: 23:48 - 30 Jul 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never heard such a load of crap in all my service... Wish he's stopped me for leaning too far Cool ..
Ignore it, its complete hogwash and would get him nowhere indeed. Next time simply and politely tell him to go away and stop wasting your time!

I had a cop looking at my cans on Squires car park last week, he said "Those cans don't look legal" Confused 'Don't LOOK fookin legal???
I just replied
"Oh right, you know the regulations do you, you know what your looking for i suppose... Well i'll be leaving in 5 mins if you want to hear it as i pass you!"

Some cops have been getting right up my nose recently. Evil or Very Mad
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