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Right To Not Be On Electoral Role

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Delbwoy
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PostPosted: 03:02 - 02 Nov 2006    Post subject: Right To Not Be On Electoral Role Reply with quote

If I'm posting in the wrong section, please move the post.

I had a guy knock on my door this evening telling me that no one from my address has filled in the electoral role form. I told him that until they change the voting system in this country, no one here wants the right to vote. he told me it was law that you have to be on the register. So I replied with something along the lines of show me the law and I'll argue how useless it is. He came back with an up to you sort of attitude and walked off.

Bastard woke me up for nothing!

To the point............

We have numerous parties to vote for at election times, and if as an example, there are 5 parties to vote for, one gets 40% of the vote. another gets 30% of the vote and the rest of the votes get divided in smaller shares, the party with 40% wins the election.

Am I missing something here, or does that mean that a party that has 60% of the voting population against it wins the election?? Surely a second ballot is in order with the two highest elects fighting against each other.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm 38 years old and have always seen that as the way it is so have never voted. That and the fact that they are all full of shit.

Then I got to thinking, what is going to happen now? The guy will file a report and the council (or whoever) will take me to court. What can they do? Fine me for not wanting to vote? They can fine me all they want, I have no money left. Send me to jail? Been there, keep a low profile and it's a doddle, plus I could do with the rest.

It just seems odd to me. They call it an electoral role in a democratic society. Well I choose not to be on the electoral role. Why is that not my right? I may be naive, but I just don't get it. Can someone explain in a reasonable way that I might realise either the error of my ways, or the reason to fight this to the end.

I think Siggi could have something to say here.
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killa
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PostPosted: 10:32 - 02 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know very little about the subject, in the flat block that i live in the brown envelopes come through the door, and all of us leave them.
I've opened a few and there's nothing for me in there.

My flat mate is lazy and hasn't signed the paper, a guy came round apparently and he signed there and then, he seems to think they're going to smash the door in and rape him.
Pesonally i think like you, what are they going to do? Lock me up, i'd like to see them fucking try it.
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Annabella
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PostPosted: 10:35 - 02 Nov 2006    Post subject: Re: Right To Not Be On Electoral Role Reply with quote

Siggi wrote:

I do. This is a shit-hole nazi state, and it's 'democracy' is an obscene joke.



Maybe, but not voting won't solve that.

Besides, being on the electoral roll doesn't mean you have to vote. It just gives you the option to. Personally, I'd rather have the choice, and to maintain that choice we have to keep voting. Don't vote, we'll have the right taken away from us entirely then we really would live in a dictatorship.
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Last edited by Annabella on 11:22 - 02 Nov 2006; edited 1 time in total
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Mister James
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PostPosted: 10:49 - 02 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a fair bit of sympathy with some of your comments, especially those relating to annoying council officials, but my immediate reaction would be for you to vote for a party that supports Proportional Representation, rather than first-past-the-post.

If you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem, as the old annoying saying goes - but it does ring true in this case. Too many people think that democracy is just a case of voting for a party. If their policies don't suit you, you have to take a more active part. Unfortunately, in today's instant-gratification society, where the population is lazy and the politicians (often rightfully) mistrusted, people think that their political requirements should just be served up to them on a plate.

Oh, and it's the 'Electoral Roll', not 'role' - Anna, I'm surprised at you! Wink
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Annabella
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PostPosted: 11:24 - 02 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mister James wrote:


Oh, and it's the 'Electoral Roll', not 'role' - Anna, I'm surprised at you! Wink


Coffee? Anyone? I need to wake up Sad
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tribal_tiger
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PostPosted: 11:28 - 02 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only reason I sign on the roll is that it can really affect your credit rating and things like that.

I want to try and sort out a mortgage soon and not being signed up is a big no no.

Not something i agree with and I know this will spark more flames off. Why should the electoral roll have anything to do with me being able to borrow money off a bank?
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VTR SP1
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PostPosted: 11:32 - 02 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you don't register your details you won't be able to vote but more importantly the council won't be able to sell your details to the likes of 192.com and all the other tinternet people that make it really easy for people to find you.

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Mjolnir
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PostPosted: 11:45 - 02 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have never been on the electoral roll. It's not something anyone ever teaches you about so I happily went for years without caring. After discovering what it was I continued without signing up because it doesn't seem worth it. I do understand the benefits; registering to vote, being a fine upstanding member of the community but I have to echo some of the feeling here that it really makes no difference either way.

Managed to get a mortgage last year without ever being on the electoral roll but I had to provide a lot of extra proof of where I have lived and for how long. The sort of thing that would have been easily sorted if I had been signed up.

Apart from the illegalities of not being registered are there any other long term problems with it? Am I just being naive in thinking its not really a big deal?
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JonB
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PostPosted: 13:55 - 02 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is just a case of Britain being really backward, we are one of the very few countries that still run "First past the post" as far as I know.

I'm all for Proportional Representation. It does give more chance of having your wants to be passed through, however the bottleneck comes when each of these leading parties can't agree on something so it can take ages for change to actually happen. Smile
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R1stu
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PostPosted: 14:09 - 02 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lets start our own "BCF" Party.

Then see if we can get into parliment.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 14:15 - 02 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

nah we don't need voting,

we need an assassination market

read this


If the assassination market is seen as civil disobedience instead of terrorism, as suggested by Jim Bell, then this could perhaps lead to a fundamental impact in how governments function: Most public figures would have a price on their head. Jim Bell argues that the price would be somewhat proportional to how much the people dislike the person, and that it would scare politicians from making bad decisions.


Blair and all the scuz bags who replace him would have eaten a bullet already.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 14:18 - 02 Nov 2006    Post subject: Re: Right To Not Be On Electoral Role Reply with quote

Siggi wrote:

What we need is a party that is built brand-new from the bottom up, founded on solid and inalienable principals of justice and freedom for all.



I totally agree but thats what democracy was supposed to be and has turned out to be a failed experiment , since they inevitably turn to dictatorships,

Starship troopers? , 2 years federal service (not always military since the book implied 95% was non military service) = the right to the franchise of voting?

I sitll like the assassination market though.

unfortunately I see no massive sea change (cept labour falling apart since they owe 48million and unions and everybody is turning on them) , and hence choose the emigration route.
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tribal_tiger
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PostPosted: 14:28 - 02 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

we need to start an anarco-sydicalist commune. We take it in turns to be a sort of executive officer for the week but all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs but by a two thirds majority in the case of...


Wink
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mchaggis
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PostPosted: 14:36 - 02 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

It hammers your credit rating if you're not on the electoral roll.
Hence, sign onto it, it can save you money. You can also choose not to appear on the editted version which people can buy.
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Luke_Retrofly
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PostPosted: 15:06 - 02 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

just dont vote Question
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froggeh
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PostPosted: 17:00 - 02 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

It always amazes me this type of conversation.

The FPTP system is better if you want a government that can actually do anything.

Democracy is at the election. You vote for a government to make laws. In fact I strongly disagree with ANY referendums apart from the ellection... I mean most people voting on something like a european constitution haven't a feckin clue what they're voting for.

You should always vote. A non-vote is a vote for whoever gets in. So even if you hate them all, you should vote for the least-worst.

And as far as life in Britain is concerned. Well I can go for a few beers with my mates 2 or 3 times a week, I can go for a blast on my motorbike from time to time, and I can go on holiday a couple of times a year with my family. I go most years to Amsterdam and chill for a weekend, and until recently I went to the Alps most years to snowboard. Ok there are quite a few laws I disagree with, but I can legally campaign against them. Now go and try this in China, or worst still North Korea, or even Pakistan, India, anywhere in Africa.
Our average lifespan is constantly increasing, and we're getting more wealthy year on in.
What exactly is the fucking problem?
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Louise
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PostPosted: 18:27 - 02 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it the law to be on the E/roll? I didnt think it was.
It just hinders your chance at a few things ive been told 'credit ect'
But, I dont vote, nor will I vote untill something that will help me is done!
I dont want anyone knowing where I live, thats one reason why I stay off the roll.
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MarJay
But it's British!



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PostPosted: 18:32 - 02 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Siggi wrote:

The "problem" (one of them) is when one of the minority of people who have it good say "what's the problem" to those of the majority who have it bad.


I agree that there is/are problem(s). However, I don't think what you say here is actually one of them.

Still, maybe we should start the BCF Party?

Arrow Allow self defence and defence of property

Arrow bring in proportional representation

Arrow Make the police catch theives, violent offenders and general toerags rather than speeding bikers

Arrow Abolish road tax and get all the revenue from fuel tax.

Arrow Make people display an 'insurance disk' in their car/on their bike.

Arrow Abolish all plans for electronic speed restriction
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Delbwoy
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PostPosted: 18:43 - 02 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't claim any benefits. I pay my taxes. I only owe my mortgage. I don't need another mortgage, and who is there to vote for that is going to change the voting system to suit my preferences. No one has got the bollocks, either that or the rest of their policies are not worth shit. I'll have to look into it further. I was never really too interested before, but as I may be representing myself in court sometime soon, I ought to have a good argument.

Ok, so I get on the electoral roll just to please the law. That's wrong. I don't want to be on the electoral roll. It doesn't benefit me, and I should have the choice. Why don't I have the choice?

I don't have the choice because it is the law. So this must mean that the people agreed to a law that takes away a freedom of choice. Hmmmmm. Oh yeah, I forgot, the people don't get a say in which laws are passed in this democracy.

My argument doesn't seem that strong at the moment, in as much as "My name ain't on the form cos I don't want it there". A bit feeble I agree, but it doesn't change the fact that I choose not to be on the electoral roll and I should have that freedom of choice. I'm hurting no one, in fact I'm not even potentially hurting anyone or anything.
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froggeh
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PostPosted: 19:10 - 02 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Siggi wrote:
froggeh wrote:

What exactly is the fucking problem?


The "problem" (one of them) is when one of the minority of people who have it good say "what's the problem" to those of the majority who have it bad.


I just don't believe that the majority have it bad in this country. The majority have it good. How (almost) anyone in this country can claim to have it bad, when looking at the rest of the world, is beyopnd me. Obviously there are those who have been through the mill, but c'mon.
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froggeh
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PostPosted: 19:12 - 02 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Delbwoy wrote:
I don't claim any benefits. I pay my taxes. I only owe my mortgage. I don't need another mortgage, and who is there to vote for that is going to change the voting system to suit my preferences. No one has got the bollocks, either that or the rest of their policies are not worth shit. I'll have to look into it further. I was never really too interested before, but as I may be representing myself in court sometime soon, I ought to have a good argument.

Ok, so I get on the electoral roll just to please the law. That's wrong. I don't want to be on the electoral roll. It doesn't benefit me, and I should have the choice. Why don't I have the choice?

I don't have the choice because it is the law. So this must mean that the people agreed to a law that takes away a freedom of choice. Hmmmmm. Oh yeah, I forgot, the people don't get a say in which laws are passed in this democracy.

My argument doesn't seem that strong at the moment, in as much as "My name ain't on the form cos I don't want it there". A bit feeble I agree, but it doesn't change the fact that I choose not to be on the electoral roll and I should have that freedom of choice. I'm hurting no one, in fact I'm not even potentially hurting anyone or anything.



You're on it because of council tax for one thing.

I just don't see how it is such a hardship. It doesn't cost anything. It doesn't change your life one bit. Why even give it a second thought?
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 19:20 - 02 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

With regard to the not filling in the electoral roll thing. They find themselves in a dilemma. It is illegal to not fill in the electoral roll and you can be taken to court for it BUT (and it is a big but) they don't know who to send the summons to because you haven't filled in the electoral roll. So, unless you actually tell them who you are, there is very little they can do about it.

A magistrate wont issue a summons to "The occupier". This means that the only way they can actually find your identity would be to turn up with a policeman who can arrest you and hold you until your identity has been established. I'm fairly certain the police consider they have better things to do with their time, I'm also pretty sure their 'stop and search' powers do not extend to residential properties so you can just shut the door in their face.
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froggeh
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PostPosted: 19:51 - 02 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Siggi wrote:

It'll always be possible to look at other parts of the world and say "It could be worse for me", but what kind of criteria is that to go by? We've become used to a certain potential...sometimes we've reached it, but more often now it's nothing but a false promise. Work a bit harder...a bit harder...a bit harder...oh, bugger, still not made it.

But Siggi dude, look back at the 30's 40's 50's... There is less poverty now than at any time in our history. And we're still growing...

Quote:

The average wage is what? "27k" or something? One of the govt's most bare-faced lies, based on blatantly twisted statistics.

I think it's about right... This is an average. In other words it includes some rather massive wages...

Quote:

The average wage in this shithole is around 12k. And that means effective poverty. See the news last night? Abbey have raised their mortgage lending limit to x5 of salary. Do you think they did that just for a laugh? Say goodbye to the golden era of home ownership, because it's gone and will never return.

To be fair to Abbey - if you look at the details, it's for people on >50K a year, and they do a check for debt... (I still think it's daft I'll give you that)

Quote:

The most common experience in this country, as I said earlier, is both partners working their guts out and still being in debt up to the eyeballs.


I think this IS common. But in my experience, alot of these debt ridden people are still out pissing it against the wall, and buying new trainers/handbags every month and have the full Sky subscription.(Ok thats a real generalisation).

Quote:

Sure, most people have got three hots and a cot, but there's more to life than just those simple basics. Unless you're a native in Africa. But we're not, and that's the point.


Again. the number of people on the breadline has got less decade after decade.
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colin1
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PostPosted: 19:53 - 02 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

i also recently succumbed to their vague threats and so am now on the electoral roll at my address.

I dont like it because now anyone who knows my name can find out where i live. This could be a problem at some point.

Democracy sounds great in theory, but you dont really have much choice. Even the politicians that seem good at first, turn out to be deranged loons.

I doubt i will vote again, and I know that if i do I will regret it.

i know people who set it as their goal to be on £1k for each year of their age and they are achieving it. (£21k at 21, £30k at 30) Its pefectly possible if you make the right choices.

Id quite like to make national average wage before I die. I know I deserve it, but so far I think my best bet is to set up side line businesses to boost my income. I certainly wont do it just by working in my line of work.
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froggeh
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PostPosted: 20:07 - 02 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

colin1 wrote:
i also recently succumbed to their vague threats and so am now on the electoral roll at my address.

I dont like it because now anyone who knows my name can find out where i live. This could be a problem at some point.


Why dude? You a member of a dodgy org?

Quote:

Democracy sounds great in theory, but you dont really have much choice. Even the politicians that seem good at first, turn out to be deranged loons.

Always have been. It comes with the job methinks. But to be fair to them (I know, I know), the top ones could be earning shit loads more in big businesses. I do at least give em that.

Quote:

I doubt i will vote again, and I know that if i do I will regret it.

You should vote for the ones you least dislike... Especially if you're in a marginal. Change is bound to be slow, but it does happen...

Quote:

i know people who set it as their goal to be on £1k for each year of their age and they are achieving it. (£21k at 21, £30k at 30) Its pefectly possible if you make the right choices.

Id quite like to make national average wage before I die. I know I deserve it, but so far I think my best bet is to set up side line businesses to boost my income. I certainly wont do it just by working in my line of work.

What do you do exactly? What skills do you have? I know it says telemarketing, but have you got sales skills which you could certainly use to better that wage ambition...
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