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Car thread - rear shelf speakers

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palmer
Fiddled Kiddy



Joined: 21 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 14:08 - 25 Jan 2007    Post subject: Car thread - rear shelf speakers Reply with quote

For those who arent interested in cars/modding, please leave Mr. Green

Time has come to install the speakers into my mdf shelf.
Got 2 possible ways of doing it, just wanting to know oppinions.

Option 1
https://img408.imageshack.us/img408/5228/999418576sx.jpg
6x9 at the sides, 13cm in the middle. I would think this would give the best sound? making it more 'surround' than rear heavy? (looks good too Laughing )

Option 2
https://img147.imageshack.us/img147/8969/681777318om.jpg
Seen them like this in a few cars, but surely the sound would be too much behind you?

Which layout would give a better sound? I'm guessing option one.

cheers
palmer Thumbs Up
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binge
Emo Kiddy



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PostPosted: 14:13 - 25 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

AAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!


is your name Barry? Laughing


Dont do it mate. Dont do it.


Tweeters in the back are a no no in SQ installs anyway. Plus. FOUR shelf Speakers! Pahahaha!


Please take a photo of it when your finished so I can put it on https://www.barryboys.co.uk/mx/

Cheers dude



<|ben|>




Wink
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binge
Emo Kiddy



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PostPosted: 14:15 - 25 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a more serious note. Your not going to get a better sound out of any of those 2 installs.


For a start, The frequencies given from Tweeters are directional. So you wont beable to hear them properly anyway as they are behind you. You need them up front.


Also, If you have a sub in the boot. Kiss goodbye to those Speakers your about to put in your shelf. You will ruin the voice coils in them.


<|ben|>
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palmer
Fiddled Kiddy



Joined: 21 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 14:15 - 25 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

i need the tweets in the back. the standard rear ones are coming out.

could propbably (with a bit of modification) fit the 13cm into the origional rear speaker holes, will need a bit of work to fit them in though.
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TheShaggyDA
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PostPosted: 14:18 - 25 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just wear headphones.
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binge
Emo Kiddy



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PostPosted: 14:19 - 25 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

You dont need tweeters in the back... At all....

Admit it, you want a rear shelf build for when you attend your "Bruv" car meets so you can open ya hatch and blast ya sounds! Laughing Wink
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palmer
Fiddled Kiddy



Joined: 21 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 14:20 - 25 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol actually no Wink

i want the sound to stay in the car - for my pleasure only like.


if i wanted to 'blast my tunes' id be doing a proper boot build Laughing
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binge
Emo Kiddy



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PostPosted: 14:21 - 25 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not do somthing usefull, and contact this company. They can build replacement door cards to house bigger and better speakers. Front and back.

https://www.bassbox.com/doorpods.htm
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palmer
Fiddled Kiddy



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PostPosted: 14:22 - 25 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

by the way its a stealth shelf, so i have the option of not showing the speakers...

that link looks handy Thumbs Up
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Whosthedaddy
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PostPosted: 14:23 - 25 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too many speakers in the lightweight shelf that will lead to shite sound quality.

16x9 in the self and 6" in the front doors Thumbs Up

Then, a big fook off sub in the boot.

Its simple yet sooo nice Cool Thumbs Up
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Rookie
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PostPosted: 14:24 - 25 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd recommend something like this...

https://www.barryboys.co.uk/photos9/skelters210107punto4.JPG

...but you'd better get the car looking like this...

https://www.barryboys.co.uk/photos9/skelters210107Punto.JPG
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palmer
Fiddled Kiddy



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PostPosted: 14:25 - 25 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Whosthedaddy"]Too many speakers in the lightweight shelf that will lead to shite sound quality.quote]

its not that lightweight Laughing could take the weight of a person easily i should think


as for that purple thing lol, thats way too over the top for me.
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binge
Emo Kiddy



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PostPosted: 14:29 - 25 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

A bit of cloth over your speakers isnt going to make them sound good! Laughing


By the looks of things, Your running a set of Alpine speakers and a set of Pioneer Speakers.

You best option is to put them on ebay, Your Sure to get some good ££ for them as they are a bruvs wet dream.

Then bag yourself a set of these, And one of these.

Install them correctly. Tweeters up high, On the dash somwhere, Or adapt the current tweeter housing to hold those ones. Replace the current door speakers with those ones too.
Amp in the boot bolted to the back of the seats. And your on.

You will then have an outstanding quality of sound in your car. Thumbs Up


failing that, The Coaxs you have (The Pioneer speakers) are almost as good as the Component setup. Get them up front if you cant. You wont need to amp them providing you have a half decent head unit.
I know its not a 106, but In my mini I ran them like this.
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/binge/dash2.jpg


<|ben|>
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binge
Emo Kiddy



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PostPosted: 14:31 - 25 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whosthedaddy wrote:
Too many speakers in the lightweight shelf that will lead to shite sound quality.


Oooh but its a "Stealth Shelf". Laughing
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palmer
Fiddled Kiddy



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PostPosted: 14:35 - 25 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

already done the front speakers, also replaced the thin standard wiring. sound quite nice runnig off the headunit, very crisp.

as for selling the speakers, ive only just got them Laughing
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Suzuki
Roger



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PostPosted: 14:35 - 25 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rookie wrote:
https://www.barryboys.co.uk/photos9/skelters210107Punto.JPG


Why are they always for sale? Thinking
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Whosthedaddy
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PostPosted: 14:37 - 25 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

binge wrote:
Whosthedaddy wrote:
Too many speakers in the lightweight shelf that will lead to shite sound quality.


Oooh but its a "Stealth Shelf". Laughing


Still going to bounce around when they get cranked up?

I think that the main down side to mounting on the shelf is that they look pants when the boot is open Laughing

As for that Punto, thats just pants.

Purple is the colour of sexual frustration Wink
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BIKELESS STEVE
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PostPosted: 14:57 - 25 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

From experience of both installs using 6x9s and mids will just sound messy. You get vocals fired at the roof linings, far too much high frequency and overkill on midbase.
Just buy good replacement fronts (angled towards drivers head)(ampd up) don't bother with rear shelf speakers (it's just an advert for someone to show you've got kit worth robbing, yes, even with a 'stealth' shelf and who cares about the passengers in the back) Dump a 10 or 12" ampd sub in the boot. Good sound deadening in the doors and boot lid will help (several layers if you want to do the job properly).
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binge
Emo Kiddy



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PostPosted: 15:00 - 25 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmer wrote:
already done the front speakers, also replaced the thin standard wiring. sound quite nice runnig off the headunit, very crisp.
:


Your about to ruin that then putting more speakers in the shelf. Thumbs Up

Get a set of "Pods" for the rear door cards for those Pioneers. And feed the 6x9s to the dog.
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Annabella
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PostPosted: 15:08 - 25 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmer wrote:
very crisp.


Not wishing to be critical, I think it's good that you are enjoying your car and putting as much effort into it as you are, but there really is a limit to the sound quality you can achieve in a car. It's possibly one of the worst acoustic environments.

1. It's a small box
Areas like glass windows and flat roofs make for big reflective areas for sound, so your bass particularly is going to suffer from echoes and distortion from the interactions of similar waves.
Also there is a limited amount of space to ensure that the speakers are equidistant from you - the listener meaning that you will get poor time alignment (the time difference between right and left channels will be great enough for you to hear it).
1b. It's a box shape
So there are lots of 'dead' areas where the sound cannot reverberate and just dies.

2. It's already vibrating
Simple one this, it's already vibrating, so there is already interference with the sound before you've even started. In a home people go to great lengths to ensure the complete stability of their speakers, a speaker in a car is never going to have that level of stability especially one bouncing around on a parcel shelf.
2b. It's making a lot of noise
Because it's vibrating it's already making it's own amount of noise and most of this is of similar frequencies to the music you would listen to.


My advice is to first of all try to reduce your sonic 'clutter', so additional sound damping would be beneficial.

Be thoughtful regarding the placement of speakers, as Binge already mentioned, tweaters are treble, so have little diffraction - i.e. they're directional. Point them upwards, the sound will go upwards and not towards your ears so by the time you hear what they have produced it will have been bounced off your roof/rear windscreen and distorted in the process, then travelled to your ears, by which point, the tweaters mounted at the front of your car will be fractionally ahead of those at the rear.

Also remember that two waves of similar frequency and shape that are not perfectly in phase with one another will act to cancel each other out.

Personally, I think you'll notice a deteriation in sound quality by mounting speakers in your parcel shelf. However, if you're adament that you want to 'fill' the sound of the car then try to ensure that they are pointing towards you and not the roof. Thumbs Up
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Suzuki
Roger



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PostPosted: 15:33 - 25 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe he just wants lots of speakers to make his car loud, and so that we all have to hear it.
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binge
Emo Kiddy



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PostPosted: 15:58 - 25 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyway, As fun as the offtopic slateing of Palmers boy Rude car was! A bit back on topic to his origional Question. Which would be a better arrangement on the rear shelf.


In all honnesty, Id probably mount the 6x9s on the rear shelf. And try getting those Pioneer Coaxs down in the rear door cards. There must be somwhere to mount a set of pods there. Im sure my mate had 6x9s in the rear door "Pockets". So should be do able.


other than that, if you do want to put them all on the rear shelf. Then Id go with the 6x9s to the outside as these are going to be chucking out more bass than the Pioneer Coaxs.


Another little thaught on these rear speakers is, How do you intend to wire them up?

Im guessing your going to pair them up, so you will have a 6x9 and a Coaxs running off one channel, And the same for the other channel?

This WILL sound bad. Laughing
Im also guessing they are different power ratings. So your head unit is going to be trying to power 2 completely different speakers, through the same channel.

Doing this will either Clip the signal sent from the Head unit, and completely bugger your speakers, OR your amplifier in the head unit is going to be strugeling to power these speakers, and you will end up KO`ing your Headunits built in amp.


Best bet, Buy a 4 channel Amp. Run Dual RCAs to the left and right on the amp. Then you have 4 seperate channels for the rear speakers. Meaning you can set them all up individually.

PM me if your unsure on the wiring.

<|ben|>
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palmer
Fiddled Kiddy



Joined: 21 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 16:03 - 25 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

been playing round in the car, i reckon with a little help from a bodywork friend i could get the 13cm to fit where the rear speakers used to be. these will use the old speakers wiring origin (with better wires) the 6x9 will go either side of the shelf and possibly also run off the headunit, although the sub im getting comes with an amp so ill see what i can do with that.

as for sound deadening, i got a load of dynomat all ready to be put in. will be gping under the carper/behind panels and basically anywhere Laughing

Quote:
Maybe he just wants lots of speakers to make his car loud, and so that we all have to hear it.


not at all.
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chrisw
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Joined: 24 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: 18:43 - 25 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Visable speakers = smashed window + stolen audio gear

In a small hatchback (which I assume you have) you don't need rear speakers at all. I've set up more installs than I can count over the years in various size cars, the only ones I would say had a case for rear speakers where large saloons and even those had them faded to virtually nothing.

You don't need 6x9s with a sub, sell them.

Dynomat is a waste of money to. Marley Flashing tape, few pounds for meters and meters of the stuff, does the same job if your on a budget.
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binge
Emo Kiddy



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PostPosted: 19:17 - 25 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

chrisw wrote:
Visable speakers = smashed window + stolen audio gear


Hes running them out of a Stealth shelf. Its basically a Halfrauds MDF rear shelf designed to house speakers, and hide them. They are constructed so that the speakers bolt to the shelf from the underside, and fire through a pre cut hole, which is coverd by the parcel Shelf carpet.

Although you can use Floor tiles or flashing tape. Dynamat is better. if the money is there, Go for dynamat. Dont care what anybody says. If you can afford it, buy the best. Thumbs Up
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