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umming and arring about 33bhp restriction

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carlmalibu
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PostPosted: 00:37 - 06 May 2007    Post subject: umming and arring about 33bhp restriction Reply with quote
I know this topic has been done to death, but I'm riding a CB500 and I'd love to get the other 24bhp out of it (albeit illegally)

If I was to, for example, have an accident, what are the odds of the bike being stripped?

or getting stopped? I understand if you're 18 on an R6 doing 130 you're going to arouse suspicion, but a commuter 500?

Opinions please (leaving out the safety nazi stuff and the extreme opinions)
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numpty
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PostPosted: 00:56 - 06 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote
Its totaly upto you mate. The odds are very slim that you will get caught, but on the other if you are unlucky enough to get caught then you could possibly be looking at a prison sentance.

I'm currently riding a CBR600 that is restricted. My plan is to wait untill I start to get a bit bored of the bike (as its then that you start pushing the boundries too far and doing stupid stuff) and then get it derestricted. Just to keep me on my toes basically.
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Matt06
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PostPosted: 01:06 - 06 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote
Im soon to be in a similar situation (hopefully). After my test im not planning on restricting my next bike. Even though Im looking at getting a 600 Cool.

Even if there is a risk I see it as very minimal and if you were to have a serious crash then the bike wouldnt be in a fit state to dyno and test the HP Wink.

Personally, I dont agree with the whole restrictions thing. I may only be 18 and only have experience with a 125 for 6 months but I dont see why that should stop me riding a full power bike. If I were 3 years older I wouldnt be any more capable of riding a 600 with the same experience. I also dont want to pay for my next bike to made shitter than it should be and finding a bike thats worth getting thats 33bhp or under is a bitch.

How many people ride de-restricted 2t's on L plates and never get trouble?
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 08:57 - 06 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote
numpty wrote:
but on the other if you are unlucky enough to get caught then you could possibly be looking at a prison sentance.


I've never heard prison being talked about when people have been caught riding without restrictors.... Shocked
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kiers
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PostPosted: 08:58 - 06 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote
everybody i know on 50ccers have had them de-restrricted and nobodys been caught so far, touch wood. a guy i know with a CPI SM got caught speeding and only got 3 points, nothing was said about it being derestricted, even though he has both L plates

but i doupt you'd be looking at prison, id think at the worst a ban.
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st3v3
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PostPosted: 08:58 - 06 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote
Big_Ham wrote:
numpty wrote:
but on the other if you are unlucky enough to get caught then you could possibly be looking at a prison sentance.


I've never heard prison being talked about when people have been caught riding without restrictors.... Shocked


me neither Confused
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Zimbo
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PostPosted: 09:02 - 06 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote
Matt06 wrote:
Im soon to be in a similar situation (hopefully). After my test im not planning on restricting my next bike. Even though Im looking at getting a 600 Cool.

Even if there is a risk I see it as very minimal and if you were to have a serious crash then the bike wouldnt be in a fit state to dyno and test the HP Wink.

Personally, I dont agree with the whole restrictions thing. I may only be 18 and only have experience with a 125 for 6 months but I dont see why that should stop me riding a full power bike. If I were 3 years older I wouldnt be any more capable of riding a 600 with the same experience. I also dont want to pay for my next bike to made shitter than it should be and finding a bike thats worth getting thats 33bhp or under is a bitch.

How many people ride de-restricted 2t's on L plates and never get trouble?


They don't have to dyno it, they just need to check the restrictor is present. That said, most crashes leave a bike still mechanically pretty good.
I don't see why you can't have a full power bike straight after taking your test either, it seems a stupid law. Everybody should be able to handle 180bhp, experience or no experience, it's only a few horsepower after all. You're bound not to kill yourself at warp factor 9, and when it bites you your lightening sharp reflexes are bound to be able to save it. Or so you'll think, until you find yourself ten feet up in the air, looking down at your shiny pride and joy sparking down the tarmac on it's side. Trust me, you haven't got the learned reflexes and skills required to safely ride a superbike, that comes only with experience. Those things have levels of power you can't even dream about!
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strag
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PostPosted: 09:22 - 06 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote
strag wrote:
A friend of mine lost their son in a bike accident last year, he was 21. He was riding a ZX6R, he should have been restricted to 33BHP, he wasn't. The accident investigation placed no fault on him, stated he was not speeding, the car did a u-turn from a lay by, his heart exploded on impact and he was killed instantly. The driver is being prosecuted for careless driving.

Subsequent investigation showed the bike to be at full power when it should not have been as he was not licensed to ride it.

Are the insurance paying out? It is a bloody nightmare for his mum as not only has she lost a son but she has all this to deal with as well.

So take whatever moral from this story you like.

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mistergixer
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PostPosted: 09:44 - 06 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote
Zimbo wrote:


I don't see why you can't have a full power bike straight after taking your test either, it seems a stupid law. Everybody should be able to handle 180bhp, experience or no experience, it's only a few horsepower after all. You're bound not to kill yourself at warp factor 9, and when it bites you your lightening sharp reflexes are bound to be able to save it. Or so you'll think, until you find yourself ten feet up in the air, looking down at your shiny pride and joy sparking down the tarmac on it's side. Trust me, you haven't got the learned reflexes and skills required to safely ride a superbike, that comes only with experience. Those things have levels of power you can't even dream about!


Sorry, and with the greatest respect, you are talking absolute bollocks there!!! I don't know why some people on here are desperate to perpetuate the myth that a 'full power' bike is some rabid, snarling, widow-maker, hell-bent on flicking the rider off at the first oppurtunity.
Perhaps it's some vain attempt to be 'johnny big-potatoes' and stand back basking in the admiration and envy of the lesser mortals who do not posses the finely honed reflexes of a greased cobra in a tub of axle grease.
You do not need to be 'Ace Biker' to ride a sportsbike of any size and power - however to get the best out of it does take an incredible amount of skill - and to a certain amount, stupidity.
Having ridden a variety of large capacity superbikes (R1 + Gixer thous), i can honestly say that at a slower pace, these were the most docile and neutral of all the bikes i've ever ridden. It's far easier (IMHO) to pootle around on a thou, than say a 400 or 600. But, once provoked, they are incredibly rapid - on a K5 GSXR1000, even at speeds over 170mph, i found holding the throttle to the stop an incredible experience of extreme terror and extreme enjoyment.
If you get on a bike that's much bigger/more powerful than what you are used to, should you attempt to instantly take it to the limits in an Ace Biker stylee, the chances are you will end up in trouble, in a hedge or sliding down the road. If you ride with a modicum of common-sense and self-preservation, you won't be trying to get the thing flat out at the first bend.
Like the sign in the Cat & Fiddle says - "If you ride like a knob, you'll die".
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TheDonUK
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PostPosted: 09:50 - 06 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote
Zimbo wrote:

They don't have to dyno it, they just need to check the restrictor is present.


And how does one check that the "restrictor is present sir?, because the law DOES specify one unique, checkable method of restriction doesent it, i mean a well thought out law like that must do right??? Rolling Eyes


Quote:
That said, most crashes leave a bike still mechanically pretty good.
I don't see why you can't have a full power bike straight after taking your test either, it seems a stupid law. Everybody should be able to handle 180bhp, experience or no experience, it's only a few horsepower after all. You're bound not to kill yourself at warp factor 9, and when it bites you your lightening sharp reflexes are bound to be able to save it. Or so you'll think, until you find yourself ten feet up in the air, looking down at your shiny pride and joy sparking down the tarmac on it's side. Trust me, you haven't got the learned reflexes and skills required to safely ride a superbike, that comes only with experience. Those things have levels of power you can't even dream about!


If you are the kind of person that jumps on a shiney new sportsbike fresh after doing your test, and ride full blast everywhere natural selection will catch up with you 33bhp restrictors or not... I think you may find the guy with the restricted r6 will take more risks trying to catch up with all his mates on shiney non restricted r6's... SAVE ME JEEBUS....
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Andy C
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PostPosted: 11:48 - 06 May 2007    Post subject: Re: umming and arring about 33bhp restriction Reply with quote
carlmalibu wrote:
If I was to, for example, have an accident, what are the odds of the bike being stripped?


Youll be fine......unless you crash and they police when they take your bike in will check and if its not all in order then you have problems.

How long you have to go? i have 5months and have decided to see it though as not worth the hassle when the police start asking lots of questions Thumbs Up
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 11:53 - 06 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote
mistergixer wrote:
Sorry, and with the greatest respect, you are talking absolute bollocks there!!! I don't know why some people on here are desperate to perpetuate the myth that a 'full power' bike is some rabid, snarling, widow-maker, hell-bent on flicking the rider off at the first oppurtunity.


Maybe they are not, but they can be with cack handed use. And these days the average learner has had a few days wobbling round on a 125 / ER5, a small amount of it on the road. Probably less mileage than many people on here average in a week.

Would you like to be in a 747 being landed at Heathrow piloted by someone with 40 hours experience in a light aircraft?

TheDonUK wrote:
I think you may find the guy with the restricted r6 will take more risks trying to catch up with all his mates on shiney non restricted r6's... SAVE ME JEEBUS....


If they are that determined to catch up then they are likely to crash anyway. And have some chance of being done for racing on the public highway (mandatory ban and extended retest).

All the best

Keith
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Giffer2
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PostPosted: 11:57 - 06 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote
Zimbo wrote:


They don't have to dyno it, they just need to check the restrictor is present. That said, most crashes leave a bike still mechanically pretty good.
I don't see why you can't have a full power bike straight after taking your test either, it seems a stupid law. Everybody should be able to handle 180bhp, experience or no experience, it's only a few horsepower after all.


But at 17 you can pass your driving test and jump into a Bugatti Veyron.

I think the bike restriction is a good idea but some more thought needs to be put into it and how it works (Plus they should have a similiar system for cars).

Maybe it should be staged so it's something like this -

125cc - 15bhp on L Plates
upto 600cc - 45bhp for 1st year after passing standard test
upto 600cc - Full power for 2nd year after passing standard test
600+cc - Full power after 2 years.
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truslack
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PostPosted: 12:06 - 06 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote
And you shouldn't be restricted to 30mph at 16 Very Happy
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kiers
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PostPosted: 12:08 - 06 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote
or just allow people to take the das at 17 on a 600 then let them ride whatever they like.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 12:08 - 06 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote
Giffer2 wrote:
But at 17 you can pass your driving test and jump into a Bugatti Veyron.


How many people wipe themselves out in a supercar just after doing their tests compared to how many do it on a superbike? Roughly 4 times as many people are killed in cars, yet something like 150 times as many miles are done by car.

To be honest I do not agree with the legal restriction (for a start it makes no account of pre test experience, whether someone has 3 days / 250 miles, or 25000 miles), just think that those with stuff all experience should take some care in their choice of bike (and how they ride) until they build up some knowledge. Same applies to cars.

Lad next door crashed his car after 2 weeks on the road (year on a moped as well). Rolled it. Was he going too fast? To be honest probably not for someone with any level of experience. He basically screwed up and paniced due to stuff all experience (car came the other way, he fluffed up finding the dip beam switch, paniced, clipped side of road and that was the end of his input into the situation).

All the best

Keith
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Groove
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PostPosted: 12:12 - 06 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote
Giffer2 wrote:

Maybe it should be staged so it's something like this -

125cc - 15bhp on L Plates
upto 600cc - 45bhp for 1st year after passing standard test
upto 600cc - Full power for 2nd year after passing standard test
600+cc - Full power after 2 years.


So for the first 2 years of your biking life your not alowed on a Trump 650/675, Kawasaki 636 or a Bandit 650 ? Razz

Ive been stopped lots of times with full power CBR6, even been to court for doing an average of 110mph, and got banned without restrictors mentioned Thumbs Up
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Matt06
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PostPosted: 12:42 - 06 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote
Zimbo wrote:

They don't have to dyno it, they just need to check the restrictor is present. That said, most crashes leave a bike still mechanically pretty good.
I don't see why you can't have a full power bike straight after taking your test either, it seems a stupid law. Everybody should be able to handle 180bhp, experience or no experience, it's only a few horsepower after all. You're bound not to kill yourself at warp factor 9, and when it bites you your lightening sharp reflexes are bound to be able to save it. Or so you'll think, until you find yourself ten feet up in the air, looking down at your shiny pride and joy sparking down the tarmac on it's side. Trust me, you haven't got the learned reflexes and skills required to safely ride a superbike, that comes only with experience. Those things have levels of power you can't even dream about!


I dont want to turn this into an offensive post in any way but I disagree with lots of things you said there. Apart from being patronising, how do you know how well I will handle a 'superbike'? Just because it goes 160 doesnt mean Im going to jump on it and do top speed runs on the nearest dual carriageway or race the local superbikes around town.

The problem is, all of this raises the question 'when am I ready for
a 'superbike'? I have 6 months experience riding a 125 and I dont believe any extra time on it will improve my skills at riding a totally different bike.

People always jump on the saftey band wagon when it comes to an 18 year old getting a sports bike without restriction. No one says much when a thread pops up in new bikers about someone not knowing how to brake properly on their CBR600 because they passed their DAS last week.
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mistergixer
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PostPosted: 12:46 - 06 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kickstart wrote:

Maybe they are not, but they can be with cack handed use. And these days the average learner has had a few days wobbling round on a 125 / ER5, a small amount of it on the road. Probably less mileage than many people on here average in a week.



With cack-handed use, pretty much any bike (or any vehicle for that matter) can get you into trouble.
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TheDonUK
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PostPosted: 12:54 - 06 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kickstart wrote:


TheDonUK wrote:
I think you may find the guy with the restricted r6 will take more risks trying to catch up with all his mates on shiney non restricted r6's... SAVE ME JEEBUS....


If they are that determined to catch up then they are likely to crash anyway. And have some chance of being done for racing on the public highway (mandatory ban and extended retest).

All the best

Keith


Thats my point Kickstart, a sports bike is perfectly cable of being ridden by a sensible rider, if you are an idiot you will kill yourself 33bhp restriction or not...
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 13:12 - 06 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi

Matt06 wrote:
The problem is, all of this raises the question 'when am I ready for a 'superbike'? I have 6 months experience riding a 125 and I dont believe any extra time on it will improve my skills at riding a totally different bike.


6 months is not much, and I do not think Zimbo or myself are saying to stick to a 125 for ever. Just that jumping from a bike designed to be novice friendly to a bike designed to go damn quick is a hell of a jump. Most will survive it, some won't. Take your time moving up. Er5, GPZ500, CB500, SV650, 600 Monster. All make a good bike to get used to extra power and weight.

Matt06 wrote:
People always jump on the saftey band wagon when it comes to an 18 year old getting a sports bike without restriction. No one says much when a thread pops up in new bikers about someone not knowing how to break properly on their CBR600 because they passed their DAS last week.


Err, I do regularly. Think it is as much a silly idea, and have said so. Including to my old boss who did his DAS and then wanted a hot 600 straight away (landed up getting him to consider others, he went for a 600 Fazer, then later a 1200 Bandit and now after a few years building up he has a 'busa).

mistergixer wrote:
With cack-handed use, pretty much any bike (or any vehicle for that matter) can get you into trouble.


Maybe true, but cack handed on a 125 is at low speed, and with light weight. Smaller bikes are a lot more tolerant of novice mistakes.

TheDonUK wrote:
Thats my point Kickstart, a sports bike is perfectly cable of being ridden by a sensible rider, if you are an idiot you will kill yourself 33bhp restriction or not...


It is, but with excitement at a new toy, and stuff all experience, plus about 5 times the power, sharper brakes and more weight, it is very easy for them to get carried away (figuratively, then litterally).

All the best

Keith
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Gazdaman
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PostPosted: 13:27 - 06 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote
I agree with Zimbo's post. Stick a 17 year old fresh off of a 125 onto a gixxer thou and there will very soon be 1 fewer gixxer thou and 1 fewer 17 year old in the world.

I kept my restrictors in for about 6 months, I also had fairly sensible bikes < 80bhp.

I think the restriction stage is necessary. I think the law works well, I think effectively a blind eye is being turned to restrictors.

I had a major crash, police etc and restrictors were never mentioned.

Gaz
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 13:37 - 06 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well I'm your age mate, so this merely what I've done.

Pass my car test in Nov 2005, got a bit of road experience/road sense. Did a 3 day course in Feb 06 to get my bike license. I did a bit of motocross when I was younger so could handle a bike anyway. Got my 400 restricted. Rode around on that, learn to get my kneedown and generally corner in a safe/quick manor. In March gone I've hopped onto a full power Hornet 6, just taking it easy for now and trying not to get pulled.

I reckon from a 125, spend 6 months to a year on a restricted bigger bike and after that if you feel confident, take the restrictors out but be careful. Going from restricted to a full power 6 is a fairly big jump if you aren't expecting it. It will also get you into a lot of trouble if you take the piss.
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gmanxiii
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PostPosted: 13:38 - 06 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote
whilst i agree the laws for restriction can actually be seen as a quite discriminating towards age rather than experience, i think overall they do the job, remember that most of you guys were once or are still young. admit it or not, a young persons attitude is a lot different to an older person, often fierce and fearless (young people, you'll realise when your older). Theres a reason that young drivers/riders pay alot more for their insurance. Whilst im not saying that all young riders/drivers are not mature enough or cannot handle full power (many probably can and generally have faster reflexes etc) its the general attitude that can make them dangerous not just to themselves but other road users. Not to say there arent older drivers/riders that dont sport the same attitude but generally the sensible ones at that age outnumber them hence its not heard about too much. The laws are there to try and protect people, obviously they cant please everybody but a restriction system biased more towards experience and for all cars and bikes would make more sense.
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Irezumi aka Reuben
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PostPosted: 13:41 - 06 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote
Regardless of whether you do it or not bare in mind you will technically be riding without the correct licence for the vehicle and insurance which is not valid.
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