Big metal advice needed (beam to hold 1t) for garage

[G]

Basically I need to know what sort of metal to order that would support one side of a raised floor which should need to hold up to a tonne or so - the other three sides will be on walls.

I am looking to build a small second floor/large shelf above the bikes in my garage. This will go be about the length of a bike and the width of my garage. Idea is to free up some space so I can hopefully get a bit better organisation and have some space to work on bikes.

I'd be looking for the whole thing to be able to take in total around a tonne, though I expect there should be a lot less than that, even with a couple of people crouching on it.

Around the outside I will probably just use big bits of wood attached to the walls with chunky expanding wall bolt thingies - possibly with supporting legs if required. The issue will be to have a decent enough support to hold the 'leading edge' which will be projecting into the garage. While traditionally I'd get a big chunky bit of wood, as height is at a premium here, it'd make sense to use metal - a girder or similar.

So, does anyone have any recommendations of what sort of 'specs' I should be looking for? I've talked to my local metal place and they've basically said they can't offer specific recommendations because they're not certified etc and are worried about possible liability if they offer suggestions.

[Sparks!]

WTF you wanna put on it???

Just make a wood frame as well as screwing to the wall, brace it with wood etc, it'll be fine for loads of stuff + standing on!! I'm guessing its for spares/storage of bike bits/general garage stuff etc.. It'd be fine!

Mates done the same thing, barely any support at all yet hes got loadssss of stuff on it no probs.... so if you make a half decent frame it'll be low profile and plenty supportive enough for what you want i'd imagine!
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[G]

A few engines could easily make up 200kg. Add in a load of swing arms, forks etc and we're up to 300kg I reckon, bit more for other stuff then possibility of a couple of people standing on it makes it a realistic maximum of 500kg. Double that to be safe and we've got 1000kg.

I don't want to have a large frame - infact I don't want to have anything underneath the area the bikes will be if it at all possible, thus wanting to use metal rather than wood.

The current shelves and such like in my garage have all had the 'g test' and passed fine - namely me swinging my body weight off them or climbing on them - so I'm quite familiar with making stupidly-over strength shelving .

However, even the pretty big bits of wood I've got for my tyre rack and for the ceiling-height shelves above the garage door do flex a bit.

[gavin]

what are the walls made of? anchor fixings can take a huge load but they wont work in lightweight airated blocks. you'd be better hanging it off the top of the wall if you can.

i think you'll be fine with wood, you should be able to use hangers and joists and the leading edge will support itself. all depends apon the span, but you wont find many steel i beams under 4" and 6x2 timber will be fine if its only storage, even 4x2 if its at close enough centres

if you can post up some pics and a sketch you might get some clearer help, i could even give you a price.
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[G]

Walls are 'normal' bricks as far as I know. I'm happy to put supports at the sides if required.

Garage is around 270cm wide.

Took some pics, but can't find the lead for the camera .

Anyway, it'd be supported around the edge at the back of the garage with wood, with a 270cm beam in the middle of the garge.
The bits of 2"x4" wood across the same stretch that I've got at the moment seems to bend a bit with not much weight on it, however they are used horizontally, so should be stronger vertically.

If the consensus is that wood should be as strong for the same height, then I'll happily use that.
I do expect there to be a pretty decent weight of stuff on there at points.

[daz|n00by]

just get a 6inch x 4 inch RSJ also known as i I beam.

will hold any weight you could think of putting on it.
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[tonyyzf]

I'm using two 4 metre 8" x 5" RSJ's for supports for a cattle grid, it takes 20 tonne lorries going over it.

I would have thought 4" x 2" wood (on there side) would be ample support for the sort of wieght you're talking about.
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[G]

I was looking at 4x2 in Wickes today. Just with my weight on it it would flex a bit with a horizontal profile. Reckon it would probably still be ok if I used two or three. Though, if 4x2 wood will 'do', presumbably a 4x2 'rsj' or maybe even a bit smaller would do fine as well, though more expensive.

[gavin]

its meant to be used the other way, 2" in the horizontal, 4" in the vertical. your house is probably only built with 6x2 (might be 8x2 though) and thats got upstairs walls, furniture, beds, baths full of water, the roof and tiles etc etc all sitting on it.......
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1988 TZR125 : 1990 RD350YPVS/ RGV250 HYBRID : 1982 RD80LC : 1983 RD80LC : 1994 RGV250 : 1991 TZR125 / CR500R HYBRID : 1976 BENELLI 500 QUATTRO : 2006 TRIUMPH 675

[SoND]

80x40x3mm box section should easily be strong enough.

[G]

My house has got concrete floors I think .

Sorry, by horizontal profile I meant with it 'upright'.

50mm box section sounds good - even an extra couple of inches would be useful, though I can chisel into the wood a bit which could be useful. Edit or did I just read it wrong - though even 80mm would buy a bit of space.

I wonder about using a few smaller RSJs (say 4 lots of 50mm).

[Zimbo]

A tonne isn't actually a lot of weight at all. The box section suggested above would be perfectly adequate, should be fairly cheap as well!

[G]

Anyone know anything with easy to understand specs for box section/i-beams etc. Found a few resources, but couldn't work out how to use them/understand what the many options meant.

[SoND]

An I-beam will probably be too heavy duty. Box section is strong and you can get it pretty cheap, go to your nearest welder and they should have some in stock.

50x50 would be very strong but if it's 2.7m long 80x40 would be a lot better. Won't bend on you.

What do you mean by specs?

[G]

I presume the 80x40 you're suggesting is used vertically? (so with the 80 side vertical)

Space really is at a premium and while an extra 40mm isn't /that/ much I'd like to save as much as I can.

The box section appeals because if I was using several bits I could weld in some cross supports more easily than to I frame (for more easily supporting the floor without taking up extra height.).

So I'm now thinking whether wood or metal to use several beams across the length of the garage (2.7m) with some smaller supports for the floor going between these, flush with the top of the main supports.


By specs I meant a list of how much weight specific width/height beams/square sections could take.


And, erm, sorry by Horizontal profile, I actually did /mean/ vertical. Just re-read and seem to have confused myself twice - it definitely was vertical when I was getting odd looks jumping up and down on the wood getting strange looks in Wickes .

[Zimbo]

[SoND]

[G]

Space is a big concern. If I could get away with several strips of 40x40 that'd probably make the most sense.

the welding would just be for the cross-section bits that would be there to add slightly better suport to the floor in comparison to just laying (probably) chipboard across on it's own.
(My welding, mostly, sucks )

[Grav]

Some good advice there, G. gives you plenty to think about.

I have an inspection pit in my garage and have covered it over with a frame made from 40 box and covered with 18mm thick Plywood. This holds the weight of both my 750 Kawasakis quite easily. they are around 400 kilo's each.

if you build it right, bracing it in all the right places, then 40 box should hold the weight of the things you want to store with ease.

Have you got a plan/drawing of what you want building?

[Zimbo]

[Grav]

40 box doesn't bend very much, I used to cut three tons of it up every day to make Glass carrying stillages for Pilkingtons. The structural strength is in the section of the tubing and the bracing. If G is worried about the strength, then placing 2 columns under the front span will sort it. Alternatively, if G doesn't want vertical steel columns cluttering up the place, an 80x40 for the front span and 40 box for everything else.

[fredsredhat]

I use loads of different size box section at work and I'd go for 50x50 over a 2.7m span. 3 or 4 spans with that it'd hold your car on it. We buy it in 8m lengths for around £7 i believe. build a good base, a few support legs here and there and brace as much as you can off the brick and bob's your uncle. where abouts in the world are you? I can weld it all up for you if you want (as well as bring loads of bracing angle iron etc)

[MarJay]

G,

If you are really set on the 40x40 box section then a couple of braces from the walls might be an idea in a buttress style.

If you want neat welding then see if you can borrow a MIG welder or even better a TIG welder.

Your arc welder doesn't seem to be very easy to use, and I've done some MIG and TIG welding before so I could have a crack at it if you want. I'm free most of this weekend if you need a hand with anything, but I'm kinda trying to avoid doing heavy lifting because of my wrist.

In addition to what everyone else has said above, I don't think the box section strength is going to be the issue, I think it will be the strength of whatever you use to attach it to the walls that will be the main thing. If you are going to use some box or fence posts or something as pillars then that would be good, but it won't help the space. The points of failure will more than likely be at the corners before the box section gives way, unless as I said you have some sort of pillar arrangement.

If you can cut the box at a good right angle and make the crosspiece sit on a couple of upright pieces of box section, then welding it will be strong. All you have to worry about then is if the crosspiece does bend, it'll pull the uprights away from the wall!

As long as everything is carefully measured, and the box section is attached to the wall strongly, I can see it being OK for the weight.
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[MarJay]

[jackw72]

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