Another late night inspiration...

[Milo]

How about a twin tuner VCR that can record two programs to the same tape using alternate frames. it'd be the same quality as longplay mode....though obviously you couldn't watch while recording...and a bit less versatile as tivo...and more expensive than getting a second VCR...pah-never mind
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Shaft drives rule.

[Major_Grooves]

Eat less cheese before bed mate!

[TiN]

CCTV-type VCRs use similar techniques when recording multiple cameras. Unfortunately, because it's only recording alternate frames, the resulting footage won't be totally smooth, and I dread to think what the sound will be like.

You can Mpeg2 encoding hardware that can record multiple channels of full quality footage, but they cost a few quid.
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TiN
dotgems.net

[Rob]

But if it used alternate frames that means one programme would get allocated 12 frames per second and the other programme would get 13 frames per second, so even if it could work out that, the fact of pictures running at those fps would be pretty unwatchable!

Sky are just about to release an update for the Sky+ box that allows it to record using both its tuners at the same time, so you will be able to record two separate programmes at the same time, but obviously would only be able to watch stuff you had already recorded as it does only have two tuners in it!

I want summat that records the whole digital stream so it is constantly recording all channels, all the time!! Guess I will have to wait for storage capacity to go up first!

Long live TiVo!
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Love is 1050cc

[MarJay]

The sound is embedded on VHS not on a seperate track AFAIK so it wouldn't work I don't think.
<<< works in the broadcast industry.
Also I don't think the FPS is a problem as TV is scanned onto the screen as lines, so it would record lines not frames. Thats why you get a blurring on pause unless the VCR is multi head.
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[Rob]

You could get it to record on alternate fields, then you will still get smooth motion but at half resolution!


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Love is 1050cc

[Rob]

[Milo]

it'd be the same quality as longplay mode-which aint too shabby so it'd be bearable. there's just no point in developing it!
Don't think it's the cheese, it're more like the gayness of laying in bed knowing that my bike's sitting outside after i've only just gotten off it and there's no point in letting it get cold again...
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Shaft drives rule.

[Rob]

[Milo]

i thought it doubled the length of the tape by halfing the speed?
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Shaft drives rule.

[MarJay]

Oh ok. I'm used to hundreds of formats of DIGI tapes which have embedded audio.
Frame rate still won't be a problem though cos VHS records at 50fps (again a guess) if you can think of it in frames instead of lines. You'll still get 25fps (which is nominally what PAL TV and LP VHS gets anyway) so it might work in that case.
I don't think you can think of it in that way though cos I think VHS fudges some of the lines together to lower the resolution. Damn I wished I'd listened in my VHS training!
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[Demonic69]

Milo, they already make twin tuner VCR's most combination TV/Videos use twin tuners and I've seen a few twin tuner decks out there, mainly used for copying vids but can record 2 chanels at the same time.
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Back on a Blade. Just feels so right.

[TiN]

[Rob]

[Demonic69]

Ah! Wouldn't know about that then! Tight arse
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Back on a Blade. Just feels so right.

[Rob]

[MarJay]

Thats what I mean about not being able to think of it in terms of frame rate... cos VHS fudges it by recording so many lines etc... if it was in terms of frame rate then it would be reasonable to assume that long play wouldn't work unless the original frame rate was at least 50fps. Mind you for this purpose there's no reason why you coldn't record at 50fps halving the length of tape. You might as well stick a hard disk in there though... that would be easier.
I think we mostly use embedded audio cos we got some expensive equipment to strip out levels of audio and stuff before it goes to a router.
Like I said we don't really use VHS at work so I'm not that au fait with it. I'm into video servers mainly.
Good taste in bikes btw Rob!!!!
Oh and NTSC is something like 29.89999 frames per second or something ridiculous like that... it also records 500 odd lines instead of 600 odd.
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[Rob]

But its the same on VHS as for all recording formats, they all work at 25fps in this country and images aren't stored on tape in 'lines' they are stored as fields, ok so not like in the conventional way when you look at a film strip, but still everything is stored as a field which a TV then interprets and draws field 1 first then field 2 after. It does that for all 25 frames in a second, hence it works as 50 fields per second. In the future will we do away with the 'field' part of it and TV's will draw whole 'frames' at a time which will result in much better pictures, this is known as progressive and at the moment, only region 1 (ntsc) dvd's offer footage stored in this way (for home use), but again the source footage has to be captured in frames not fields to make it worthwhile (eg film!)!

The advantage of embedded audio is that it all goes down one cable with the video, but obviously if you get a video dropout the audio will go too, so you are much safer taking a seperate digital audio feed from the decks too!
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Love is 1050cc

[Rob]

3 cylinders is the only way to go in engines!!

NTSC is 525 lines running at 29.97 fps - but dont go there, that opens up a whole can of worms!!

We work at 625 lines here!
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Love is 1050cc

[MarJay]

Yeah I know about progressive scan... I assume that you can do away with reference black if you've not got a scanning image...
I though the whole basis of TV transmission was that it was scanned in lines across the screen. DVD's and stuff yeah but even Digital TV is decoded into old fashioned scanlines.
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[Rob]

[Kris]

zzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzz
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NSR125RR - ZXR750H1 - ZX9R E1 - GSF600S - GSF600SK3 - VFR400-NC30 - SV1000N - ST1100-R - CBR900RR-R - GSF1200SK5 - GSF600SK1 - VFR1200FA - GSXR1000K2 - ZZR1400 D8F
www.prisonplanet.com

[Rob]

Sorry, discussion ended!!! lol

Wake up Kris!!!
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Love is 1050cc

[Zimma]

[MarJay]

we're 625 lines at 25...
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.