|
|
| Author |
Message |
| pwntifex |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 pwntifex World Chat Champion

Joined: 23 Aug 2006 Karma :    
|
 Posted: 11:59 - 04 Jun 2007 Post subject: Russia, Putin and the New Cold War |
 |
|
https://sun3.lib.uci.edu/jariel/atomicblast.jpeg
What are your thoughts about Putin's threats to launch nukes against Europe should America go ahead and install a radar for their anti-missile system in the Czech republic?
It seems as if these threats have appeared more or less from nowhere—Putin is obviously eager to flex the old military muscles in true Soviet stylee.
None of the news agencies seem to be treating it very seriously, so should we be worried or not?
Furthermore, are the U.S.'s actions acceptable or not? Do you think they're really planning to use them against the middle east? ____________________ the warped one: This is a follow up from the thread 'my willy hurts' |
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| pwntifex |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 pwntifex World Chat Champion

Joined: 23 Aug 2006 Karma :    
|
 Posted: 12:04 - 04 Jun 2007 Post subject: |
 |
|
Here are some news links, by the way: one and two. ____________________ the warped one: This is a follow up from the thread 'my willy hurts' |
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| craigie b |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 craigie b Citizen Smith

Joined: 26 Jul 2004 Karma :     
|
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| pwntifex |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 pwntifex World Chat Champion

Joined: 23 Aug 2006 Karma :    
|
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| craigie b |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 craigie b Citizen Smith

Joined: 26 Jul 2004 Karma :     
|
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| killa |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 killa Won't Shut Up

Joined: 18 Oct 2004 Karma :  
|
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| strawberry |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 strawberry Scooby Slapper
Joined: 30 Aug 2004 Karma :     
|
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| UrbanRacer |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 UrbanRacer World Chat Champion

Joined: 26 Jul 2005 Karma :     
|
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| Mister James |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 Mister James I want to believe!

Joined: 10 Aug 2004 Karma :     
|
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| Kickstart |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 Kickstart The Oracle

Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :     
|
 Posted: 20:37 - 04 Jun 2007 Post subject: |
 |
|
Hi
Agree with Mister James. However such a system would make a first strike option rather safer for the USA (should they choose to concentrate the use of the system on the area they wish to defend).
Whether they would do such a first strike is another question, and comes down to you opinion of the USA. Personally suspect that if it came to it they would do it, but have no real need to. On the other hand Russia similarly has no need to but can take the view that it is a first step to negating their nuclear offensive capabilities.
Suspect Russia could design / implement its own missle defence system fairly rapidly if they wanted to. And we would be paying for it through our gas / electricity bills.
All the best
Keith ____________________ Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing |
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| cestrian |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 cestrian World Chat Champion

Joined: 24 Jul 2006 Karma :   
|
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| JonB |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 JonB Afraid of Mileage

Joined: 03 Jun 2004 Karma :  
|
 Posted: 11:52 - 05 Jun 2007 Post subject: |
 |
|
Let's face it, why would Russia want to bomb its primary customer of oil and provider of their fairly stable economy. I use that term lightly, Russia is still in a bad way. It is coming up to election time in Russia, therefore Putin is trying to use symbols of strength to get the vote.
Cold Wars are fine, in fact during the first Cold War, it was actually the longest sustained period for centuries without a serious war. What tends to happen is many proxy wars occur, e.g Vietnam, Korea. Where the two superpowers were indirectly involved with military actions against each other.
Let's not forget we don't live in a Bi-Polar superpower system anymore. Russia is not a superpower. The US is still the only majorly recognisable superpower.
This hasn't been broadcast on the media, but I have a sneaky feeling, these missile defences could also be for use against the up and coming Chinese and Indian economies, its a well known fact India have nuclear arsenal.
What will this mean for the UK?
The new trident system will probably get a definite go ahead, provided a new arms race begins.
Also important to remember this wont be a war about different ideologies here. ____________________ Be careful whose advice you buy, but, be patient with those who supply it. Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it?s worth. |
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| Itchy |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 Itchy Super Spammer

Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Karma :     
|
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| innominate |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 innominate Brolly Dolly

Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Karma :     
|
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| Mister James |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 Mister James I want to believe!

Joined: 10 Aug 2004 Karma :     
|
 Posted: 22:51 - 05 Jun 2007 Post subject: |
 |
|
| Jon B wrote: | What tends to happen is many proxy wars occur, e.g Vietnam, Korea. Where the two superpowers were indirectly involved with military actions against each other.
|
We are already involved in wars-by-proxy, just not with Russia. We can't afford to be drawn into any form of confrontation with them at the moment.
| Quote: |
Let's not forget we don't live in a Bi-Polar superpower system anymore. Russia is not a superpower. The US is still the only majorly recognisable superpower.
|
Russia is still a power to be reckoned with, it has almost double the number of warheads that the US has access to, and has been rebuilding its forces over the last decade. Don't write them off yet, the post-Cold War myth about the broken bear is exactly that - fiction.
| Quote: |
This hasn't been broadcast on the media, but I have a sneaky feeling, these missile defences could also be for use against the up and coming Chinese and Indian economies, its a well known fact India have nuclear arsenal.
|
China has had long range ICBMs for donkeys' years, if we'd felt we needed a defence against them we'd have deployed one a long time ago. India is too busy developing short/medium range weapons to slap Pakistan about, it doesn't have the resources to develop a significant threat to us.
| Quote: |
The new trident system will probably get a definite go ahead, provided a new arms race begins.
|
It was always going to, any consultation is simply a paper-exercise to keep the nay-sayers thinking their opinion counts.
| Quote: |
Also important to remember this wont be a war about different ideologies here. |
Indeed not. Whether Muslim, Christian, Capitalist or Communist, it's always been about power and wealth, and frakk all to do with ideologies. ____________________ >Soultrader Mister James, I bet you are a copper
>Bazza Wow. Eyes like a shithouse rat, you... |
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| colin1 |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 colin1 Captain Safety
Joined: 17 Feb 2005 Karma :  
|
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| hellkat |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 hellkat Super Spammer

Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :  
|
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| Yorkie Bar Kid |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 Yorkie Bar Kid Nova Slayer

Joined: 06 Dec 2006 Karma :    
|
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| hellkat |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 hellkat Super Spammer

Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :  
|
 Posted: 01:08 - 06 Jun 2007 Post subject: |
 |
|
Cold wars are so dull, anyway. All that double/triple/quadruple agent stuff ... nobody ever REALLY gets to know who was the Bad Guy, life gets a bit like a Robert Ludlum novel  ____________________ Not nearly as interesting in real life. |
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| Mister James |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 Mister James I want to believe!

Joined: 10 Aug 2004 Karma :     
|
 Posted: 15:21 - 06 Jun 2007 Post subject: |
 |
|
| colin1 wrote: | you cant blame putin for being a bit cross
today these defence missiles could be a token defence against a theoretical threat from iran, but in time they could be a way of further weakening russias position
|
Colin, read my post.
This system is NO threat to Russia's deterrent, and will not become one. Any such threat would require a totally new system based on technology none of us have.
Putin has NO reason to be concerned, he is playing the situation for political leverage.
| Quote: |
the americans didnt like castro having nuclear weapons based in cuba, so why should putin be ok about something based by him that could in time invalidate his nuclear deterant ?
|
Perhaps not; but as this situation bears no resemblance at all to your theory, we can safely ignore it.
| Quote: |
i doubt he'd actually nuke, but the possibilty that he might, is enough that america should think again.
|
Ermmm, I think the idea is that Europe thinks again, as it's there that Putin has said he will aim his missiles.
| Quote: |
america has a habit of doing something for one reason under the pretext of something else
|
Oh, you mean like EVERY OTHER FRAKKING COUNTRY IN THE WORLD?
| Quote: |
for example weakening iraq with sanctions |
Would that be those UN-mandated sanctions, the same UN that everyone who hates America worships? Rather than browsing through back issues of the Mirror and Granuiard, why don't you actually research the issue a little? You'd find that France and Russia signed off on the sanctions, France helped enforce them, and both nations sold far more weapons to Iraq than the US or UK every did. Both signed massive oil contracts just before the last Gulf war, and then suddenly decided that Saddam was ok. How ginger beer. ____________________ >Soultrader Mister James, I bet you are a copper
>Bazza Wow. Eyes like a shithouse rat, you... |
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| Mister James |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 Mister James I want to believe!

Joined: 10 Aug 2004 Karma :     
|
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| JonB |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 JonB Afraid of Mileage

Joined: 03 Jun 2004 Karma :  
|
 Posted: 15:50 - 06 Jun 2007 Post subject: |
 |
|
| Mister James wrote: |
Indeed not. Whether Muslim, Christian, Capitalist or Communist, it's always been about power and wealth, and frakk all to do with ideologies. |
All of your other comments were stuff I agree with, however I don't think you can wipe ideology out of the box like that.
The Truman doctrine exampled to some extent why the US went to war with Vietnam in the first place. This so called "domino effect", was the theory that once one country had fallen to communism, so the next one would. China had been "lost" to communism and Vietnam was a potential gateway seeing as the Vietcong were fighting in vietnam prior to the Vietnam war, the North was already under communism and the US didn't like the idea of it spreading to the south.
Besides wealth and ideology both tied in well with the Marshall Plan after WWII, simply because giving money to rebuild Europe after the war would have been far beneficial than for Western Europe to fall to communism, so I do believe that if there was a "Second Cold War" it would be ever so slightly different to the first one.
 ____________________ Be careful whose advice you buy, but, be patient with those who supply it. Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it?s worth. |
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| Mister James |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 Mister James I want to believe!

Joined: 10 Aug 2004 Karma :     
|
 Posted: 16:10 - 06 Jun 2007 Post subject: |
 |
|
You are fixating on the minutia.
Communism was simply the route certain people took to power and wealth.
Western democracy was another.
If the whole world was Communist, we'd still have wars. If it was all Muslim, we would too.
Ideologies, religions, politics and beliefs, they are all simply manifestations of Man's desire to grab a little bit extra for himself.
Edit: Grade = B- 'John shows good background knowledge of the subject, but has yet to show he is capable of looking beyond the immediate context to discern the underlying causes.'
[/patronisinggitmode] ____________________ >Soultrader Mister James, I bet you are a copper
>Bazza Wow. Eyes like a shithouse rat, you...
Last edited by Mister James on 16:59 - 06 Jun 2007; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| TheShaggyDA |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 TheShaggyDA Repost Police

Joined: 14 Jun 2004 Karma :  
|
 Posted: 16:46 - 06 Jun 2007 Post subject: |
 |
|
| Mister James wrote: | You are fixating on the minutia.
Communism was simply the route certain people took to power and wealth.
Western democracy was another.
If the whole world was Communist, we'd still have wars. If it was all Muslim, we would too.
Ideologies, religions, politics and beliefs, they are all simply manifestations of Man's desire to grab a little bit extra for himself. |
I might be wrong, but I seem to remember that in one of the Indian langauges, "War" is another word for "Need more cows"  ____________________ Current: CB500 Previous: CB100N, CB250RS, XJ900F, GT550, GPZ750R/1000RX, AJS M16, R100RT, Enfield Bullet
[i:6e3bfc7581]But still I fear and still I dare not laugh at the madman...[/i:6e3bfc7581] |
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| Mister James |
This post is not being displayed .
|
 Mister James I want to believe!

Joined: 10 Aug 2004 Karma :     
|
 Posted: 16:59 - 06 Jun 2007 Post subject: |
 |
|
That sounds like something DemoNSR would say!
 ____________________ >Soultrader Mister James, I bet you are a copper
>Bazza Wow. Eyes like a shithouse rat, you... |
|
| Back to top |
|
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 19 years, 163 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
 |
|
|