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petrol mix up , solution? ** edited* crankshaft problem

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halo123.
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: 09:49 - 25 Jul 2007    Post subject: petrol mix up , solution? ** edited* crankshaft problem Reply with quote

Hi this is a bit of a stupid question , i mixed up the fuel i was supposed to use on my bike and ran thru a tank and a half of leaded (lrp) petrol instead of unleaded so now there is a knock.

What should i do. do you think if i just flush the tank out and replace with unleaded it will burn the excess carbonization from the leaded or do i have to over haul the head and manually clean the carbon off ( i have checked and the knocking is a possible side effect of using the wrong fuel ) (in other words will the knock go away if i just use normal unleaded petrol?)
Thanks
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Last edited by halo123. on 13:37 - 23 Aug 2007; edited 1 time in total
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 11:00 - 25 Jul 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

what bike is this and do you mean a knock from the engine?

Would be surprised if LRP caused it, can't see any way it would.
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halo123.
Renault 5 Driver



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PostPosted: 11:14 - 25 Jul 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is the gs500 , well the carbs were not balanced or set properly, etc ,and using leaded petrol has more carbon buildup , which can theoretically cause it to knock.
I had the bike running soundly when i got it, and used it for a week on the lrp , a distance of about two to three hundred km.
I dont know anyway to disgusie a knock , to sell the bike though ,
( having bought it second hand as is , i cant really demand money back as it was running sweetly when i got it . Buying it has also made me very broke, so i would like to try fix most of it myself, as they want to charge me R1000.00 for a service, ( in south africa , and i paid R5000. for it )

But any ideas are welcome

thanks
Angus
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Spoon261
Trackday Trickster



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PostPosted: 11:28 - 25 Jul 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shell V Power, BP Ultimate and Tesco 99 (these are all their quality petrol ranges, not their normal unleaded petrol) have extra cleaning chemicals in the petrol to clean your engine out.

They do cost 4 to 7p a litre more than unleaded, but are worth trying.
Shell V Power is my favourite.
They are all meant to clean carbon deposits off the engine.

They are designed to be used all the time, so are weak meaning it will take several tank fulls to totally clean out an engine.
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Spoon261
Trackday Trickster



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PostPosted: 11:33 - 25 Jul 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I was typing my response, I see you have beaten me to it and revealed your in south Africa.

Of coarse you can not get British petrol so my advice is no use.

Are you using to low an octane petrol in the bike? That causes knock doesn’t it?
Do you have higher octane petrol than standard / do motorcycle shops sell octane boaster?
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halo123.
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: 11:39 - 25 Jul 2007    Post subject: yeah i will have to try something like this Reply with quote

Do you think if i had to use the stuff ( wynns carb cleaner ) you get in a little bottle that you add to the fuel it would help

nb i am in southafrica so the vpower is the same price as unleaded
depending on which service station i go to , about 15c diff in the prces so we dont notice so much on bikes etc.

[They do cost 4 to 7p a litre more than unleaded, but are worth trying.
Shell V Power is my favourite.
They are all meant to clean carbon deposits off the engine.

They are designed to be used all the time, so are weak meaning it will take several tank fulls to totally clean out an engine.[/quote]
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halo123.
Renault 5 Driver



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PostPosted: 11:48 - 25 Jul 2007    Post subject: gas stations in sa Reply with quote

We have total , bp , and engen , gas stations here.

The only additive that i know of is like the wynns carb cleaner stuff.
so i can use the ulitmate and techron fuels and engen also has something similar to these but i can remember its name.

( in regards to where the knock is , it is as if the bike is missing on every second piston stroke on the left side, so it sounds very similar to the way the old vw beetles used to )

nb i have checked the spark plugs and they seem to be sparking correctly ( but were very dirty ) , but will be changing them for new ones , over the weekend i hope .
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halo123.
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: 14:03 - 25 Jul 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like i will be stripping the head off of the bike to remove the carbon as techron etc ,
Takes quite a while and i dont want to ride the bike like it is , just in case its not carbon build up, check a few other options before i do though.

Evil or Very Mad
if anyone has any other ideas , thoeries please let me know.

Thanks
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Jackyboy
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PostPosted: 14:14 - 25 Jul 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

take the air filter off and run redex into the airbox. Really cleans any shit out of the carbs and cylinders. I used to run V-Power with redex in as well - keep the engine clean and efficient, carbon footprint down and petrol costs down...
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halo123.
Renault 5 Driver



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PostPosted: 15:09 - 25 Jul 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

redex?
I will see if we have it here . ( is this the same stuff do you think ?
https://www.holts.co.za/products.asp , which one would i use , the petrol additive , remember i am in south africa , so i dont have a halfords .
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



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PostPosted: 17:25 - 25 Jul 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find it HIGHLY unlikely that a GS500 is going to detonate on LRP unless it has a REDICULOUSLY low octane rating, which it doesn't.

You ain't going to get a carbon build-up off it either, it is just normal petrol with either a sulphate or phosphate additive to lubricate the valve seats on vehicles that don't have hardened ones. The only thing it is likely to cause a problem with is a catalytic converter or possibly exhaust gas sensors, neither of which your bike will have.

I think the source of your knocking noise is something else entirely.
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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cestrian
World Chat Champion



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PostPosted: 18:48 - 25 Jul 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definately with Stinkwheel on this one. Highly unlikely to be a problem regarding fuel. This may sound crazy but sometimes we here a knock or tap when we expect it most. ie in this situation.

If you really don't want to run your bike on the LRP, just drain it from the tank, replace with regular fuel and keep riding.
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ZRX61
Victor Meldrew



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PostPosted: 01:09 - 26 Jul 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
I think the source of your knocking noise is something else entirely.

I concur..

...& don't bother using any of that Redex crap, it's just ATF in a fancy bottle. Rolling Eyes

The ONLY thing ONE tank of leaded is (maybe) liable to do is foul the plugs.. which you say look like shit anyway, so change them & report back.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 01:53 - 26 Jul 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZRX61 wrote:


The ONLY thing ONE tank of leaded is (maybe) liable to do is foul the plugs.. which you say look like shit anyway, so change them & report back.


It wont even do that. They use the same spark plugs in cars designed to run on unleaded as leaded.

It's nothing whatsoever to do with the fuel type. This is a total red herring. They've been making GS500s since 1989. There was no such thing as unleaded fuel in the UK in 1989, everyone used leaded 4 star. A GS500 will run perfectly well on leaded or LRP petrol. In fact, it should run better because 4* has a slightly higher octane rating than unleaded.

The phosphate/sulphate additive can cause as slight deposit to form on the faces of the valves after tens of thousands of miles. One tank is going to make exactly no difference at all.

The only way it could be the fuel is if it has been sat at the filling station for a long time and gone stale (perfectly possible) or if there is some sort of contamination in it. Running fresh fuel through should sort this out in all but the worst of circumstances

That said, checking the sparkplugs isn't a bad idea, the condition of the electrodes may give you an indication of what is happening.

My guess would be you probably have a leak in the exhaust somewhere. Most likely round the headers or the splitter box.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



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PostPosted: 11:06 - 26 Jul 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might also be worth actually fixing whatever the problem is instead of being a total cunt?

No more help from me.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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halo123.
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: 11:19 - 26 Jul 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
Might also be worth actually fixing whatever the problem is instead of being a total cunt?

No more help from me.


no bru that hurts , i bought the bike a two weeks a go and want to know whether they could have made it sound healthy ,
i am going to keep the bike for a while , that is why i have it in my bio as a fix er upper ,

i am not going to rip anyone off.( i wanted to know whether i was ripped off?)
i am the oke who has not sold my old bike cause the stand is loose , and its a clone so everything comes off.

and i think there is a difference in the octane rating as you can see here , ( https://www.sapia.org.za/cleanfuel/faq.htm )
by the way i take this as relevant as i am in durban , south africa , which is right by the coast , and if you think i am messing you around have a look at my company(where i work) web address , www.homerentkzn.com and my proper name is angus hale
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ZRX61
Victor Meldrew



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PostPosted: 17:40 - 26 Jul 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

halo123. wrote:

by the way i take this as relevant as i am in durban , south africa , which is right by the coast , and if you think i am messing you around have a look at my company(where i work) web address , www.***.com and my proper name is angus hale

You dozy prick! NEVER post a link to your work on this site!! Half these fucking morons will be sending your boss a bunch of gay porn..
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ZRX61
Victor Meldrew



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PostPosted: 17:43 - 26 Jul 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
It wont even do that. They use the same spark plugs in cars designed to run on unleaded as leaded.

Maybe you'd like to take a look at the pile of lead foulded plugs I have in my garage? Rolling Eyes
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



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PostPosted: 22:11 - 26 Jul 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

halo123. wrote:


no bru that hurts , i bought the bike a two weeks a go and want to know whether they could have made it sound healthy ,
i am going to keep the bike for a while , that is why i have it in my bio as a fix er upper ,

i am not going to rip anyone off.( i wanted to know whether i was ripped off?)
i am the oke who has not sold my old bike cause the stand is loose , and its a clone so everything comes off.

and i think there is a difference in the octane rating as you can see here , ( https://www.sapia.org.za/cleanfuel/faq.htm )
by the way i take this as relevant as i am in durban , south africa , which is right by the coast , and if you think i am messing you around have a look at my company(where i work) web address , www.homerentkzn.com and my proper name is angus hale


I appologise then. You can see how it read.

I'd still look elsewhere for the problem though.

First off try localising the position of this 'knock' use a large screwdriver as a sounding rod. Press the handle firmly into your ear and press the end against various parts of the bike. This should let you hear where the noise is coming from (eg. top-end, gearbox, bottom end, clutch etc).

'knocking' from a fuel with too low an octane rating is also known as 'pinking' which perhaps describes the sound better. It's not generally a solid mechanical sound. It also tends to only manifest itself when the engine is under load such as going up a hill or pulling hard, getting gradually worse the more load you apply.

Have a look in your airbox. Suzukis sometimes spit oil into them from the sump breather and partially block the air filter which would cause it to run hellofa rich. Give the filter a clean while you're in there.

Something else worth doing is balancing the carbs. A paralell twin can get very noisy if the carbs are out of balance.

Quote:
Maybe you'd like to take a look at the pile of lead foulded plugs I have in my garage?


Be interesting. Why'd you keep them for so long? They lean-burn ones?

All Japanese motorcycles have been designed to run on unleaded fuel since 1978. It started to become commonly available in the UK in the mid 1990's. They still use the same sparkplugs.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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halo123.
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: 07:32 - 30 Jul 2007    Post subject: update Reply with quote

As an update to the topic , i changed the spark plugs ( they had the wrong ones in there, checked the timing chain and , set the cams with how the book says , started it and the noise is still there.
So i thought i would take it out for a spin and see is it changes in pitch or anything.
Forgot that i had no power and went and dropped the thing and broke the clutch lever Embarassed
So i have come to realise that i will be doing a lot more work on it than i thought as the knocking appears to be lower down than i thought.
( i felt like a retard having to push bump start and ride home in second Mad )
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bish777
World Chat Champion



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PostPosted: 08:44 - 30 Jul 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

I doubt the motor would start to die after two weeks (presuming youve not been running it with no oil in it of something similarly daft..)

If there is a load of crud in the carbs it can make the bike run pretty roughly. This can produce clanking, knocking noises in the motor on multi cylinder bikes as the cylinders will not be running evenly creating alot of lashing and clunking.

Have the carbies off, clean them out. Pay attention to the pilot jet and the small passageways in the carbie. Balance the throttle butterflys quickly using a metal rod or drill bit. Check the rubber diaphragms in the top of the carbs for splits.
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halo123.
Renault 5 Driver



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PostPosted: 09:50 - 30 Jul 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have already taken the carbs off and checked the timing ,
but to no avail. I will send it for the carbs to be balanced etc when i get some more money. but will probably do a complete overhaul in the interim.
The noise seemed to have started when i stalled it in 4th gear , cause someone never looked at the stop street and pulled halfway across.
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ZRX61
Victor Meldrew



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PostPosted: 03:55 - 31 Jul 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
Be interesting. Why'd you keep them for so long? They lean-burn ones?.

Because aircraft plugs are $40+ each & when I get a suitable pile I overhaul em... Wink
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



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PostPosted: 00:15 - 01 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZRX61 wrote:

Because aircraft plugs are $40+ each & when I get a suitable pile I overhaul em... Wink


Well stop buying cheap shit ones for your aeroplane then. Wink Get the proper gold electrode ones, not even my 350 powervalve could foul them.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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