Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


Employment laws, changes to working hours.

Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> Random Banter
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

owdamer
World Chat Champion



Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:59 - 27 Sep 2007    Post subject: Employment laws, changes to working hours. Reply with quote

Anyone know anything about employment law?
The place i work has had odd working hours for years. we used to do 8-4 (37.5 hours per week) for 8 months of the year, (april 1st -nov3oth) the 7.30-4.30 (42.5hrs/wk) for 4 months (dec 1st-mar31st). The wage stays the same all year. its averaged out.
We were short of work last dec so we didn't start the winter hours, butthen started them in the new year. atthe end ofthe winter hours we were gived a vote for a change in hours. instead of the winter summer thing we were offered set hours all year, with an early finish on fridays, we now do 7.30-4.30 mon to thurs & 7.30-12.45 on fri. (39.25hrs/wk).
Our boss want people to work friday afternoons now, no o/t premium, just the normal rate. He's not getting much interest so now he's saying he's going to put us all back on the old hous, which would mean starting winter hours again. This means we would have worked longer hours all year for free.
Whats the law regarding changing hours? we had a vote for the new hours, surely they cant just change it back just like that.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

NSR Mick
World Chat Champion



Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:02 - 27 Sep 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

3 months notice is required for a change of contract which is what your hours change amounts to. Thumbs Up

This may be different depending if you are on weekly or monthly pay.
____________________
If you dont like the way that I ride.......Stop trying to keep up!!!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

JonT
Crazy Courier



Joined: 06 Feb 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:04 - 27 Sep 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I was you i'd work out how many hours you are meant to work per year and then work out how many hours you would be working this year if they suddenly changed back to the old scheme.

Then you can walk up to them and ask them how much they are going to pay you for the extra hours.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

owdamer
World Chat Champion



Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:05 - 27 Sep 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

We're on monthly. I'll have to dig my contract out and see what it says. trying to find info on the net but everything seems to be there to help employers.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

owdamer
World Chat Champion



Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:11 - 27 Sep 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
ask them how much they are going to pay you for the extra hours.


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

I think i already know the answer to that one. Evil or Very Mad

You're talking about a firm that points their cctv cameras at the toilet door and makes notes of how often you go and for how long.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

binge
Emo Kiddy



Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:28 - 27 Sep 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive worked at my Depot for 2 years now. and last month the area manager decided to make us open and work Sundays too.
Ok, the hours haven't gone up, They have actually gone down by 4 hours a week because as a substitute for doing Sundays, We get a week day off. Week days are 10 hour days, Sundays are only 4 hour days.

But still. Sundays FFS! Thumbs Down
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

owdamer
World Chat Champion



Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:42 - 27 Sep 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used tyo work saturday nights. it was overtime, but was called contractual overtime meaning you had to do it when it was on. I had a mate on the opposite shift to me who needed the money so I said he could do my saturdays. It worked fine for a year, i did 3 nights a week, he did 4. The manager didn't care. As long as the machine had an operator it made no odds to him. Then we got a new senior manager. a woman and she put a stop to it. no amount of reasoning worked. it pissed me off as i didn't want to work it. it pissed my mate off as it meant he was £200 a month worse off. It wasn't just me and my mate who had an agreement. people used to swap saturdays with each other coz they wanted to go to weddings and god knows what. She put a stop to that. It caused so much bad feeling you wouldn't believe. I often wonder if its just a management thing. They seem hell bent on pissing people off and dont seem to realise that if you are pissed off you'll do less.
management. Evil or Very Mad
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

yambabe
World Chat Champion



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 02:02 - 28 Sep 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

gsxrmick wrote:
3 months notice is required for a change of contract which is what your hours change amounts to. Thumbs Up

This may be different depending if you are on weekly or monthly pay.


Did you just make that up? Confused Never heard of that one, and I've been working with recruitment/HR agencies for nearly 10 years now.

You say your original contract was for annualised pay. If the new hours amount to the same annualised rate then yes they can change them back as long as they didin't give you new contracts when it changed.

If the new hours effectively changed your pay rate then no they can't do it without your agreement.

Don't just google it, pick the phone up and speak to ACAS.

https://www.acas.org.uk/
____________________
Sod falling in love, I wanna fall in chocolate. Very Happy
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

NSR Mick
World Chat Champion



Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 09:17 - 28 Sep 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not 100% sure where I got that from. I'll keep quiet now. Embarassed
____________________
If you dont like the way that I ride.......Stop trying to keep up!!!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

growler
Traffic Copper



Joined: 17 Jul 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:03 - 28 Sep 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Owdamer wrote:
Quote:
ask them how much they are going to pay you for the extra hours.


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

I think i already know the answer to that one. Evil or Very Mad

You're talking about a firm that points their cctv cameras at the toilet door and makes notes of how often you go and for how long.


that is illegal cctv can only be used for the prevention and or detection of crime

check out Data protection act for cctv
____________________
DILLIGAF
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

iooi
Super Spammer



Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:15 - 28 Sep 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just going through this at our place.

You agree to new hours, its 30 days notice, although you can start them sooner if it suits you.

You do not agree then you get 3 months notice and they can then enforce the new hours.

So in this case you are looking at them not being able to enforce them till Dec.


I would get a calc out and work out your hours for the year and average them out per week, then go in with the figures and say that you are prepared to work the new hours but will only be working X hours a week till the end of the year, otherwise you will have averaged too many hours over the year.
If they question it point out how it used to be.
____________________
Just because my bike was A DIVVY, does not mean i am......
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

yambabe
World Chat Champion



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:23 - 28 Sep 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

iooi wrote:

You do not agree then you get 3 months notice and they can then enforce the new hours.



Two words for you there chap.

Constructive Dismissal.

They will have to show a tribunal that there was a real business need for your hours to change and you will have to show that the new hours were impossible for you to cope with to win though, if they have taken "reasonable" steps to allow people to adapt and/or say yeah or nay (which it sounds like they have) it might be a tough one.

PS - AFAIK there is no legislation specifically regarding time limits, it's down to each employer and depends on contractual terms. There is a requirement to give written notice to a change of contractual terms though, and allow "reasonable" (I hate that term, can you tell?) time for you to discuss and debate them.
____________________
Sod falling in love, I wanna fall in chocolate. Very Happy
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

owdamer
World Chat Champion



Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:19 - 28 Sep 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
that is illegal cctv can only be used for the prevention and or detection of crime

check out Data protection act for cctv


The cameras are there to prevent/detect crime. they just happen to be pointing at the bogs when the boss has nothing better to do. I dont think they pay much attention to the data protection act. One of my collegues was told to stop sending email jokes to a guy he deals with at toshiba. Now how do they know he's sending jokes unless someone is reading his emails? Neither he, nor the guy at toshiba had given permission for the emails to be read so surely that is in breach of the data protection act?
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

powelly
World Chat Champion



Joined: 29 May 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:31 - 28 Sep 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Growler wrote:


that is illegal cctv can only be used for the prevention and or detection of crime

check out Data protection act for cctv


Not true there are a number of valid uses for cctv however when you register under the act which you have to do if you have a cctv system you have to state what you will be using it for. If you use it for a reason not stated then you are in breach of the act.

However to the best of my recollection monitoring staff toilet habbits was not one of the options on the form last time i filled it in.

Very Happy
____________________
Yamaha RXS 100 > Gilera Runner 50 > Suzuki SV650SY
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

powelly
World Chat Champion



Joined: 29 May 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:35 - 28 Sep 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Owdamer wrote:
Quote:
that is illegal cctv can only be used for the prevention and or detection of crime

check out Data protection act for cctv


The cameras are there to prevent/detect crime. they just happen to be pointing at the bogs when the boss has nothing better to do. I dont think they pay much attention to the data protection act. One of my collegues was told to stop sending email jokes to a guy he deals with at toshiba. Now how do they know he's sending jokes unless someone is reading his emails? Neither he, nor the guy at toshiba had given permission for the emails to be read so surely that is in breach of the data protection act?


you can search the register here https://www.esd.informationcommissioner.gov.uk/esd/search.asp and find out exactly what your employer is covered to do.
____________________
Yamaha RXS 100 > Gilera Runner 50 > Suzuki SV650SY
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

owdamer
World Chat Champion



Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:41 - 28 Sep 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
you can search the register here https://www.esd.informationcommissioner.gov.uk/esd/search.asp and find out exactly what your employer is covered to do.


https://www.esd.informationcommissioner.gov.uk/esd/DoSearch.asp?reg=3531569

No mention of cctv on there. Confused
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

powelly
World Chat Champion



Joined: 29 May 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:48 - 28 Sep 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that makes them liable to a £5k fine!

A mate of mine has a CCTV company, Ill ask him next time I see him, he has told me before but you know what its like when you mates start talking shop.




Offtopic: If Oldham decides to change its name will you do the same? Laughing
Quote:
Data subjects are:

Customers and clients
Suppliers
Complainants, correspondents and enquirers


So they cant hold information about their employees then!
____________________
Yamaha RXS 100 > Gilera Runner 50 > Suzuki SV650SY
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

owdamer
World Chat Champion



Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:00 - 28 Sep 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Offtopic: If Oldham decides to change its name will you do the same?


That would depend on what they changed it to!. I only used that username coz I couldn't think of anything else at the time. I was born in Yokshire so i'm not even a proper Oldhamer!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Mister James
I want to believe!



Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 09:33 - 29 Sep 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

babyyam wrote:

PS - AFAIK there is no legislation specifically regarding time limits, it's down to each employer and depends on contractual terms. There is a requirement to give written notice to a change of contractual terms though, and allow "reasonable" (I hate that term, can you tell?) time for you to discuss and debate them.


Spot on.

We get this issue popping up every few months at work, as Details keep tweaking different departments' shift patterns. I've seen the infamous 90-day warning period touted several times, but I think it's simply a figure that has been given as 'best practice' by ACAS or a similar body.

The reality of the situation is that this aspect of employment law is almost entirely on the side of the employer.
____________________
>Soultrader Mister James, I bet you are a copper
>Bazza Wow. Eyes like a shithouse rat, you...
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

yambabe
World Chat Champion



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:45 - 29 Sep 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Owdamer wrote:

The cameras are there to prevent/detect crime. they just happen to be pointing at the bogs when the boss has nothing better to do. I dont think they pay much attention to the data protection act. One of my collegues was told to stop sending email jokes to a guy he deals with at toshiba. Now how do they know he's sending jokes unless someone is reading his emails? Neither he, nor the guy at toshiba had given permission for the emails to be read so surely that is in breach of the data protection act?


If the cameras record there are certain regulations in place about when and where they can be used (but I 'm not sure of the details and can't be bothered googling!) If the cameras just monitor then they do not need to comply with any rules or regulations.
____________________
Sod falling in love, I wanna fall in chocolate. Very Happy
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Itchy
Super Spammer



Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:17 - 29 Sep 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

powelly wrote:


Not true there are a number of valid uses for cctv however when you register under the act which you have to do if you have a cctv system you have to state what you will be using it for. If you use it for a reason not stated then you are in breach of the act.

However to the best of my recollection monitoring staff toilet habbits was not one of the options on the form last time i filled it in.

Very Happy


HSBC uses RFID chips embedded into cards to monitor where you are where you are going how long you have been at X Y or Z, the whole building had locked doors everywhere that could only be opened with these cards.

I've an old story about tricking the system , but I forget the details of it, but the RFID thingie said I was somewhere else, when I was really at my work station, the mid manager had a hissy fit , and gave me a bit of a bollocking, checked out the CCTV , I had been there all the time, she went bright red , I think I lost my job a couple days later.

Oddly enough she lost HER job too when that dept of HSBC was replaced by more automation and outsourcing.
____________________
Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 19 years, 15 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
  Display posts from previous:   
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> Random Banter All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Page 1 of 1

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 

Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.12 Sec - Server Load: 6.18 - MySQL Queries: 13 - Page Size: 123.26 Kb