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How do scooters work?

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Jull
Spanner Monkey



Joined: 11 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: 20:35 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: How do scooters work? Reply with quote
I am the least mechanically minded person there is and I don't get how scooters work in the following situations:

I think that the back wheel is powered when the engine is on, so how do you wheel a scooter backwards to park etc? Does the engine have to be off?

Also, say you accidently knock the engine cut off switch when riding (I don't know what happens on a geared bike either), because you can't declutch would the engine seize and throw you off, and how would it know to be back in first gear when you started it again? Confused
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ms51ves3
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Joined: 07 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: 20:43 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Re: How do scooters work? Reply with quote
Jull wrote:
I am the least mechanically minded person there is and I don't get how scooters work in the following situations:

I think that the back wheel is powered when the engine is on, so how do you wheel a scooter backwards to park etc? Does the engine have to be off?

Also, say you accidently knock the engine cut off switch when riding (I don't know what happens on a geared bike either), because you can't declutch would the engine seize and throw you off, and how would it know to be back in first gear when you started it again? Confused


Scooters work using a centrifugal clutch, at low rpms this is disengaged so the rear wheel doesn't spin, it is like neutral.
When you rev the bike the clutch expands touching the walls (like a drum brake) and you move.

Scooters don't have kill switches so the only way you could turn the engine off is with the ignition switch. If this did happen the engine would just slow down until you stop, it's not going to seize as fuel is still going into the engine, it may flood though.

Don't know how it gets back into first gear but I guess it works in the same way as an automatic car. How does that work?
Small scooters only tend to have 2 gears.

HTH Mark
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Richard_Schmid
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Joined: 01 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: 20:45 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
I recomend you take whats known as a CBT (compulsary bike training). Contact your local Motorbike training centre for more info.

Here you will learn the basicvs of riding. Will probably answer most of your questions.

Regards,

Richard

EDIT: sorry that should be Compulsary BASIC Training..My bad
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Jull
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Joined: 11 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: 20:52 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Richard_Schmid wrote:
I recomend you take whats known as a CBT (compulsary bike training). Contact your local Motorbike training centre for more info.

Here you will learn the basicvs of riding. Will probably answer most of your questions.

Regards,

Richard

EDIT: sorry that should be Compulsary BASIC Training..My bad


I passed my test on a geared bike and due to an ongoing injury from an accident a couple of years back am considering a scooter for my 'bad' days when my left side is too weak for my big bike.

I had a go on one at the bike show ages ago and it's only now I'm thinking of getting one that I realised I don't really get how they work. Embarassed
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Charlie
World Chat Champion



Joined: 27 May 2007
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PostPosted: 20:55 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://www.twistngo.com

Is a scooter magazine might help you if you decide to get one. Also they have forum: https://www.twistngo.com/userforum/index.php
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divuk83
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Joined: 27 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: 21:01 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://auto.howstuffworks.com/cvt2.htm

Dave
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TheShaggyDA
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PostPosted: 21:03 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
From here :-

https://www.teamcalamari.com/zuma/pix/variatoranimation.gif

Variator in action :-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TnkUIecRE4

Better, shorter video :-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XDqgGFfCso
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Current: CB500 Previous: CB100N, CB250RS, XJ900F, GT550, GPZ750R/1000RX, AJS M16, R100RT, Enfield Bullet

[i:6e3bfc7581]But still I fear and still I dare not laugh at the madman...[/i:6e3bfc7581]

Last edited by TheShaggyDA on 21:09 - 13 Jan 2008; edited 1 time in total
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Stalk
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 26 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: 21:05 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
This may help:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variomatic
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 21:10 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Is it just light weight you want, or do you need the automatic too?

If it's just light weight, there are a variety of options.
For instance the CCM CR40 is listed at 119kg I believe and looks quite pretty, not so much underseat storage, however:
https://www.ccmmotorcyclesuk.com/images/stories/cr-40-large.png
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Paivi
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: 21:10 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Re: How do scooters work? Reply with quote
ms51ves3 wrote:
Scooters don't have kill switches so the only way you could turn the engine off is with the ignition switch.

Mine does. If I accidentally hit it, the engine dies but not suddenly. The bike just starts to grind to a halt.
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Jull
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PostPosted: 21:41 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Cheers folks! Thumbs Up

I'm feeling as excited as I was when getting my first Bike!

My 500cc is fine when on the go it's just a right pain to manoeuvre when parking up and getting it in and out of the garage. Also once I've gone over 80 miles on a run out it creases my neck and left arm, whether that would be the same on a different bike remains to be seen.

At the mo, the new Honda Lead is top of the list, but the 2008 model isn't out yet and nobody's got a price on one. Sat on one at the bike show and the initial reviews are favourable so might give it a go. Very Happy
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ms51ves3
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Joined: 07 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: 22:00 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
TheShaggyDA wrote:
From here :-

https://www.teamcalamari.com/zuma/pix/variatoranimation.gif

Variator in action :-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TnkUIecRE4

Better, shorter video :-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XDqgGFfCso


I did not know that is how a scooter worked.
I've learnt something aswell.
Just out of interesting, how do the pullies change sizes?
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colin1
Captain Safety



Joined: 17 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: 22:17 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
there are rollers, that roll outwards in a path from the centre to the edge of the disc as rpm increases. The rollers then push apart the discs or bring them nearer depending on rpm.

You can change the rollers, to change the behaviour of the system.
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Noxious89123
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Joined: 10 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: 22:54 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://img265.imageshack.us/img265/8271/powerbandsn3.jpg

Middle Finger Mr. Green
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Last edited by Noxious89123 on 21:31 - 14 Jan 2008; edited 1 time in total
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ms51ves3
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PostPosted: 22:54 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
colin1 wrote:
there are rollers, that roll outwards in a path from the centre to the edge of the disc as rpm increases. The rollers then push apart the discs or bring them nearer depending on rpm.

You can change the rollers, to change the behaviour of the system.


So what are the pulleys made of as it looks like metal but how can metal change shape like that?
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darkangel
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Joined: 18 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: 23:06 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
yes, what demon magic is this?
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divuk83
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PostPosted: 23:23 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Very simply and badly explained:

As the variator (driven pulley) spins, centrifugal force acting on the rollers (weights) in the variator cause the two side of the variator to come together pushing the belt away from the centre of the shaft which increases the gearing. ie as the rev's build the gearing and the speed increase, as the decrease the gearing lowers again.

Dave
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ms51ves3
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PostPosted: 23:34 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
divuk83 wrote:
Very simply and badly explained:

As the variator (driven pulley) spins, centrifugal force acting on the rollers (weights) in the variator cause the two side of the variator to come together pushing the belt away from the centre of the shaft which increases the gearing. ie as the rev's build the gearing and the speed increase, as the decrease the gearing lowers again.

Dave


After looking at Shaggy's animation again, I understand exactly what is happening.
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Cigaro
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PostPosted: 14:55 - 14 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Honda Lead is a good choice of scoot. Used to ride one when I worked at Domino's and they're really easy to ride.
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TheShaggyDA
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PostPosted: 14:57 - 14 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
ms51ves3 wrote:
I did not know that is how a scooter worked.
I've learnt something aswell.
Just out of interesting, how do the pullies change sizes?


If you had read the links I (and others) posted, you'd know.
____________________
Current: CB500 Previous: CB100N, CB250RS, XJ900F, GT550, GPZ750R/1000RX, AJS M16, R100RT, Enfield Bullet

[i:6e3bfc7581]But still I fear and still I dare not laugh at the madman...[/i:6e3bfc7581]
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DidierD
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 16 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: 15:10 - 14 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Noxious89123 wrote:
https://img265.imageshack.us/img265/8271/powerbandsn3.jpg

Middle Finger Mr. Green


hahaha, how much did that go for in the end and did anyone pay for it? Razz
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panpan
Nitrous Nuisance



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PostPosted: 19:14 - 14 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
ms51ves3 wrote:
colin1 wrote:
there are rollers, that roll outwards in a path from the centre to the edge of the disc as rpm increases. The rollers then push apart the discs or bring them nearer depending on rpm.

You can change the rollers, to change the behaviour of the system.


So what are the pulleys made of as it looks like metal but how can metal change shape like that?


They are usually made of rubber. However, you can get kevlar belts which in my opinion offers slighlty less grip, but longer life.
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stan hyd
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Joined: 30 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: 19:24 - 14 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
Scooters don't have kill switches so the only way you could turn the engine off is with the ignition switch. If this did happen the engine would just slow down until you stop, it's not going to seize as fuel is still going into the engine, it may flood though.


mine does.
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 19:32 - 14 Jan 2008    Post subject: Re: How do scooters work? Reply with quote
ms51ves3 wrote:

Scooters don't have kill switches so the only way you could turn the engine off is with the ignition switch. If this did happen the engine would just slow down until you stop, it's not going to seize as fuel is still going into the engine, it may flood though.

As above, pretty sure our DNA has a kill-switch.

Even on a fuel injected bike, the engine will not seize without fuel when you hit the kill switch. It will just slow you down until you stop, as you suggest. On a rear bike the clutch will remain engaged so it will slow down quicker than on a scooter where it disengages at lower rpm.
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 22:20 - 14 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
I always thought they worked on acne.
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