Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


Surely this is illegal???

Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> General Bike Chat Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message
warped one This post is not being displayed because the poster is banned. Unhide this post / all posts.

Stelmer
World Chat Champion



Joined: 31 Dec 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 00:26 - 21 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had this on the A64 near the A1079 exit over summer one evening.

I was doing around 80ishmph in the company car, when a car came close behind me whilst I was overtaking a pickup.

I was having none of it as someone did it earlier to me on the 2 way bit before the roundabout.

I thought it was another exec trying to get past when it flashed it's lights so I dropped from 5th to 3rd doing 80ish, huge cloud of smoke almost blocked out the car (hope their window was open Twisted Evil) and I pulled over to the inside lane.

Then, as the car was passing, i realised it was that unmarked Black Volvo as it's red sign was saying ''Obey the speed limit'' followed by a cheeky flash of the blue lights.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

cestrian
World Chat Champion



Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 01:16 - 21 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about this? Bill of Rights 1689...."That all grants and promises of fines and forfeitures of particular persons before conviction are illegal and void"

According to the English Bill of Rights 1689, you can't really be fined until you have been in front of a jury of your peers. The Bill of Rights is still on the statute books and so some believe on-the-spot fines are in effect, illegal. I know people who have tested this and won.

And my point.....when tailgated, speed off, get pulled by the rozzers and insist they take the full video (including evidence of tailgating) to court.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Walloper
Super Spammer



Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 02:04 - 21 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

cestrian wrote:
How about this? Bill of Rights 1689...."That all grants and promises of fines and forfeitures of particular persons before conviction are illegal and void"

According to the English Bill of Rights 1689, you can't really be fined until you have been in front of a jury of your peers. The Bill of Rights is still on the statute books and so some believe on-the-spot fines are in effect, illegal. I know people who have tested this and won.

And my point.....when tailgated, speed off, get pulled by the rozzers and insist they take the full video (including evidence of tailgating) to court.


And you would get done and possibly them too.
But two wrongs do not make a right.

The highway code advises that when tail gated slow down and increase your braking distance.

When a man with a gun pointing at you head says "Suck..."
Pucker for the fuker......
____________________
W-ireless A-rtificial L-ifeform L-imited to O-bservation P-eacekeeping and E-fficient R-epair
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

thegubner
World Chat Champion



Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 06:02 - 21 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it happens to me I will do what I normally do to people driving dead close, its simple really, the closer you get the slower I go even to the point of stopping in the middle of road sometimes and just turning round in my seat and looking at them, not for intimidation but it don't half make people look like they feel really stupid.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Kris
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 Feb 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 08:13 - 21 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Italian police tailgate in fully marked up police cars!

Anyway, UK police got caught a few years ago riding unmarked police Fireblades around until finding a suitable 'victim' on a bike.
They would pull up alongside and rev the bike in a manner as to suggest a race is on. Once the victim took the bait the game was already over. I'm pretty sure they did a story in a bike mag...

Entrapment is the term. Or c*ntish. Thumbs Down
____________________
NSR125RR - ZXR750H1 - ZX9R E1 - GSF600S - GSF600SK3 - VFR400-NC30 - SV1000N - ST1100-R - CBR900RR-R - GSF1200SK5 - GSF600SK1 - VFR1200FA - GSXR1000K2 - ZZR1400 D8F
www.prisonplanet.com
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Itchy
Super Spammer



Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 08:25 - 21 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why does anybody speed off? , I let them tail gate me, and have led huge convoys at 5mph in 30-40mph zones, I also dominate my lane such that nobody can get past me , or undertake me.
____________________
Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Itchy
Super Spammer



Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 08:27 - 21 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

cestrian wrote:
How about this? Bill of Rights 1689...."That all grants and promises of fines and forfeitures of particular persons before conviction are illegal and void"

According to the English Bill of Rights 1689, you can't really be fined until you have been in front of a jury of your peers. The Bill of Rights is still on the statute books and so some believe on-the-spot fines are in effect, illegal. I know people who have tested this and won.

And my point.....when tailgated, speed off, get pulled by the rozzers and insist they take the full video (including evidence of tailgating) to court.



thats very true if EVERYBODY took it to court and demanded a jury trial the system would collaspe under its own weight, but not everybody does and many people pay up.
____________________
Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Kwaks
I'm not a fast rider



Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 08:31 - 21 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shocked Police use Tigras in your area, doubt they have the space in there for a camera Laughing
____________________
Fallen Angel "Nae sniffing my seat now!!!!! "
www.cliqueycuntsmcc.co.uk
I AM NOT A FAST RIDER!!!!!!!!!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Itchy
Super Spammer



Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 08:32 - 21 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kris wrote:
Italian police tailgate in fully marked up police cars!

Anyway, UK police got caught a few years ago riding unmarked police Fireblades around until finding a suitable 'victim' on a bike.
They would pull up alongside and rev the bike in a manner as to suggest a race is on. Once the victim took the bait the game was already over. I'm pretty sure they did a story in a bike mag...

Entrapment is the term. Or c*ntish. Thumbs Down


Entrapment isn't exactly legal in the UK, nor is inticement to commit a crime, a HUGE Customs and Excise , bonded warehouse scam fell through after it was revealed C&E had inticed people to commit a crime,



Ditto with C&E's money laundering ops where C&E effectively advertised for money laundering services they collected 100s of millions , but the case fell through on 3 counts , inticement , they couldn't prove the money was illegal, and something else.

The best thing to do though IF you get caught is to bring the cop down with you. But as said UK cops need a much higher standard of evidence to get the convicted though.


Probably a good thing to get bike type cameras, ie sure it gets you bang to rights BUT also gets the cop banned too , cop gets banned or gets a ton of points = loses job + pension = Very Happy Thumbs Up
____________________
Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Kickstart
The Oracle



Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 08:55 - 21 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

cestrian wrote:
According to the English Bill of Rights 1689, you can't really be fined until you have been in front of a jury of your peers. The Bill of Rights is still on the statute books and so some believe on-the-spot fines are in effect, illegal. I know people who have tested this and won.


An on the spot fine would be illegal. That is why they call them a fixed penalty charge. Nothing illegal about hitting you with a charge without it going before a jury.

All the best

Keith
____________________
Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Kris
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 Feb 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 08:58 - 21 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
Entrapment isn't exactly legal in the UK


No exactly about it, it is illegal.

But what do you think the response of the majority of bikers caught by this scam was? Pay up with a fixed penalty or fight it out in court against the police?

"Yes m'lud the officer revved his bike up, and as we all know that means we race."

It was an illegal shitty scam, just like the tailgating exercise mentioned by the OP. But they did/do carry it out, so we need to be aware.
____________________
NSR125RR - ZXR750H1 - ZX9R E1 - GSF600S - GSF600SK3 - VFR400-NC30 - SV1000N - ST1100-R - CBR900RR-R - GSF1200SK5 - GSF600SK1 - VFR1200FA - GSXR1000K2 - ZZR1400 D8F
www.prisonplanet.com
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Ben.
World Chat Champion



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 09:02 - 21 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

i've seen a big rise in unmarked cars this month.
Sad
____________________
follow my racing season
Race bike - R6
Road bike - sv650
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Jack_Cheese
World Chat Champion



Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 09:26 - 21 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:
cestrian wrote:
According to the English Bill of Rights 1689, you can't really be fined until you have been in front of a jury of your peers. The Bill of Rights is still on the statute books and so some believe on-the-spot fines are in effect, illegal. I know people who have tested this and won.


An on the spot fine would be illegal. That is why they call them a fixed penalty charge. Nothing illegal about hitting you with a charge without it going before a jury.

All the best

Keith


The wording of the bill of rights says "fines or forfeits" and if a charge isn;t a fine, then it;s certainly a forfeit.

Jack
____________________
www.bikepics.com/members/jackcheese <--- NOW FOR SALE! 51 Plate Cagiva Planet 125
Quacker_boy: "Jack, you really are a dick!"
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

jackw72
World Chat Champion



Joined: 18 Nov 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:18 - 21 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Next time just emergency brake for the tailgating policemen.

I am sure that would go down well for them and you get a new bike and gear because it was their fault.

Back of the net.

Thumbs Up
____________________
08/11/2007 A2 Passed.
Suzuki GSXR 1000 K3
Rapid Training passed
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Kickstart
The Oracle



Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:34 - 21 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jack_Cheese wrote:
The wording of the bill of rights says "fines or forfeits" and if a charge isn;t a fine, then it;s certainly a forfeit.


Charge is regarded as what you pay for a service. You do not need to go before a jury before a shop can charge you for the goods you wish to purchase.

It is a weasal worded way for them to get round the law.

All the best

Keith
____________________
Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Jack_Cheese
World Chat Champion



Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:40 - 21 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:
Jack_Cheese wrote:
The wording of the bill of rights says "fines or forfeits" and if a charge isn;t a fine, then it;s certainly a forfeit.


Charge is regarded as what you pay for a service. You do not need to go before a jury before a shop can charge you for the goods you wish to purchase.

It is a weasal worded way for them to get round the law.

All the best

Keith


Surely it's open to interpretation.

One of the definitions of forfeit:
Quote:
Noun - A thing forfeit or forfeited; what is or may be taken from one in requital of a misdeed committed; that which is lost, or the right to which is alienated, by a crime, offense, neglect of duty, or breach of contract; hence, a fine; a mulct; a penalty; as, he who murders pays the forfeit of his life.


Surely the charge (penalty as it is also referred to by the police themselves) fits into this, rendering the wording useless, as the charge is by definition a forfeit.

Jack
____________________
www.bikepics.com/members/jackcheese <--- NOW FOR SALE! 51 Plate Cagiva Planet 125
Quacker_boy: "Jack, you really are a dick!"
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

kingsknight
World Chat Champion



Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:45 - 21 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

i used to have cars doing that to me when i owned a NSR but id just slow down to p iss them off
____________________
TS50 (sold) NS125F (sold) NSR125R-K (write off after 2 crashes) CG125 (nicked) XR125L-3 (Sold )-: ) DR125SM '11 (sold yay) XL125V '12 (In love with this bike) XT600E '04 (fun on the dirt)
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

gmanxiii
World Chat Champion



Joined: 20 Nov 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:03 - 21 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

jackw72 wrote:
Next time just emergency brake for the tailgating policemen.

I am sure that would go down well for them and you get a new bike and gear because it was their fault.

Back of the net.

Thumbs Up


Ive done this to wankers tailgating me, well not an emergency stop but slowed quite quickly to a crawl whilst being ready to accelerate again. Normally see the driver panic and gesturing in my mirrors (wtf?!?) but then they back off.... alot.
____________________
I kills hondas

VFR400NC30 > ZZR600 > CBR600FX > CBR1000rr
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:21 - 21 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just practice an emergency stop, and when they hit you you can sue them for millions.
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Kris
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 Feb 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:41 - 21 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
Just practice an emergency stop, and when they hit you you can sue them for millions.


Well I know you're not being serious but I just can't get over how dangerous these new 'tactics' are. It's not just police either, I've noticed that a fair few drivers are prepared to get pretty close to us to either prove a point or to gain those vital seconds. There's definately been a shift in attitudes on the road and it's not for the better..

Neutral
____________________
NSR125RR - ZXR750H1 - ZX9R E1 - GSF600S - GSF600SK3 - VFR400-NC30 - SV1000N - ST1100-R - CBR900RR-R - GSF1200SK5 - GSF600SK1 - VFR1200FA - GSXR1000K2 - ZZR1400 D8F
www.prisonplanet.com
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Bofh5
World Chat Champion



Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:45 - 21 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen this a lot with marked cars as well as unmarked. They can be quite subtle when doing it.
They slowly get closer so that an unthinking driver subconciously accelerates a bit more and then a bit more and so on until they are then shocked as the following cars radiator lights up blue and they are getting pulled.
Its a typical shite tactic to extort money from drivers but unfortunately works.
If i get someone doing it to me i'll flick the brake lights on without actually braking and this normally "encourages" them to back off. If this doesn't work then slowing right down helps Smile
cheers
____________________
(L)users...Disk space is to good for them.

Bikes: Honda 50 / CB125-TDC / 93 CBR600 F2 (Stolen & Trashed) / 2001 SP-1 (Sold) / 95 CBR600 F3
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Kickstart
The Oracle



Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:49 - 21 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jack_Cheese wrote:
Surely the charge (penalty as it is also referred to by the police themselves) fits into this, rendering the wording useless, as the charge is by definition a forfeit.


I agree that is how it should be, but think that the opposite has been found in court hence they get away with it.

Robin de Crittenden won an appeal against a parking ticket based on it and applied for a Judicial Review based on this. However, on 6th July 2006 in the Royal Courts of Justice, the Judge refused Robin de Crittenden oral application for Judicial Review, declaring that, "the Bill of Rights does not apply to parking as parking tickets are not fines or forfeitures."

I would expect exactly the same fudge to be used to bypass any other challenge to dodgy penalty charges.

Kris wrote:
Well I know you're not being serious but I just can't get over how dangerous these new 'tactics' are.


Nothing new about these tactics. Has been done for years. Indeed when I lived in Hampshire in the late 80s the easiest way to know a police car was following you at night was that you were being tailgated by a car with headlights that dazzled you.

All the best

Keith
____________________
Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Itchy
Super Spammer



Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:45 - 21 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:
Nothing new about these tactics. Has been done for years. Indeed when I lived in Hampshire in the late 80s the easiest way to know a police car was following you at night was that you were being tailgated by a car with headlights that dazzled you.

All the best

Keith


A small hijack but in the absence of minimum speed signs how legal are 5mph convoys which occur whenever somebody tries to bully me? (notes that a woman was banned recently for 40mph on the motorway or something silly like that even though there are no minimum speeds on the motorway).

With many jobs worth cops I bet they'd try to do you for something related to that also.
____________________
Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Kickstart
The Oracle



Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:58 - 21 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

You can try it but then they would just pull you up under suspicion that you have been drinking.

And you can be 100% certain that they could find something wrong with any vehicle you are using if they really wanted to.

All the best

Keith
____________________
Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 17 years, 313 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
  Display posts from previous:   
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> General Bike Chat All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 

Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.23 Sec - Server Load: 1.8 - MySQL Queries: 13 - Page Size: 145.16 Kb