Cornering? How do you do it?

[John]

Long post, the short of it asking how you take corners?

So far on the 125 I've always tried to go into a corner at about the speed I wanted to, usually coasting round the corner and applying power on the exit.

However, I was reading the cornering info on the survival skills web site and it says you should go into the corner again at roughly the speed you want, then keep the throttle open slightly round the entire corner.

I've been trying it today and it seems to work good, seems to give the bike a little more grip and gets me round the corner a bit quicker too.

I tried doing it a bit quicker on some tighter roads and was having a bit of trouble slowing down enough to be able to hold the throttle open throughout the corner, but I think that will come with practice.

The main thing that concerns me with this is that I tend to lean over quite a long way, and if there was something in the middle of the road I think I would have big problems avoiding it compared to if i was just coasting round it like normal. The VFR seems to accelerate quite quickly (compared to the 125 OFC) even at minium throttle.

So, how do you do it, and what advice/tips can you give me?

Ta.
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TT600 neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeowwww!

[G]

You will get best grip in a corner when each tyre is taking an equal load. Because the front tyre is smaller, so has a smaller contact patch, the weight distribution should be about 40/60 front/rear.
To get this distribution you need to be on the power slightly.

This does mean you have to plan for corners, but it's generally best to, to get the most out of them . While it may seem harder to avoid things like this, your bike will be have more 'lean credit'.. because the weight distribution is correct it will be able to lean further without sliding. If you try to avoid something on a neutral throttle you may over-weight the front causing it to slide.
Note that the act of cornering slows you down and a neutral throttle can actually mean that you loose speed through a corner, making it even worse for the weight distribution.

Saying all that, I rarely bother going to those lengths on the road; I'm not pushing the limits anywhere near that that I would be on a track.

[G]

That's the idea; I do on the track anyway.

We're not talking wide open, but enough to give a little bit of acceleration.
A good example of this was when the KR had oil dripping on the rear tyre at Cadwell. Near the end of the day it got to the point that unless I was holding the throttle at a certain point the rear started to judder. Presumably this was the point where the weight distribution was correct and the bike was well 'balanced'; at two high or to low openings it started to judder unless I slowed down.

[AcIdBuRnZ]

Toe to edge of peg, knee out and lean...

Hope this helps

Mark
____________________
Past: Honda NSR125R >> Kawasaki ER-5a2 >> Kawasaki ZZR-600e1 >> Suzuki GSXR-750Y >> Honda VTR 1000 Firestorm
"Chickity China the Chinese Chicken..."

[G]

I'd watch out putting your toe on the edge of the peg.... lean a bit to far and quie a bit of your foot can go down or even possibly get ripped off the peg.

The 'proper' way to hold your inside foot is to have the ball of the foot on the peg, facing forwards. This way even with the peg going down, your foot won't touch.

[rant]Unless you're like the bloke on that GSXR600 today who just stuck his foot out while harldy leaning.... FFS, you could do that while going in a straight line... still wouldn't look good though. [/rant]

[MarJay]

Or if you're like me, just corner as quickly as you can without worrying about lean etc.

Although I do worry that I don't seem to be leaning very far. I seem to generally be able to keep up though...

Throttle slightly on does seem to make the bike work better. Thats why I like to feed in the power early but gently and then power out of the corner.

I think the overall cornering nirvana comes through experience though really!
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[chunkielad]

Leaning more doesn't mean you are a better rider.

Infact leaning less actually means you have the 'technically best' technique.

Leaning very far is mainly for the track. You can do it for fun on the road but very rarely need to go to the extent of GYKD. A good rider can get round most corners at reasonable speed on not need to lean the bike until the pegs touch - it's fun but not necessary!

There are two schools of riding out there - riding safe and riding to look good. I'll stick with riding safe.

G got it right with the weight distribution argument though. You have to have some acceleration to keep the weight slightly rear of centre and keep the bike grounded.
____________________
Mark Harrison R.I.P - 26th March 2003.
Remember you always and will ride in your honour.
Big revvs up for Mark!

[Milo]

Reminds me of a time on my big old XJ900 when I had a shit-scared sports bike riding mate on the back and I had my centre stand scraping.
I laughed at the wimp so much afterwards! And it's him that's meant to be the hard core racer (with his racing boots and leathers compated to my textile jacket) oh how I laughed.

I've starting pushing on my pegs recently and you do get a better feel for the corner. It all seems to be more stable. I'll give this giving it some throttle rather than coasting thing a go.

Adam
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Shaft drives rule.

[AcIdBuRnZ]

G...that's kinda what I meant...it was a quick post and wasn't going into the details of exactly where to place your foot!!!

Mark
____________________
Past: Honda NSR125R >> Kawasaki ER-5a2 >> Kawasaki ZZR-600e1 >> Suzuki GSXR-750Y >> Honda VTR 1000 Firestorm
"Chickity China the Chinese Chicken..."

[T.C]

chunkielad has hit the nail on the head in that the further over you lean doesn't mean you are a better rider, in fact the less angle of lean if you get your positioning right is often quicker.

The bike is most balanced when the engine is pulling evenly, so for optimate cornering, even a slight whiff of gas is desirable.

As a rule of thumb, if you come down one gear, this will afford you flexibility to accelerate or decelerate, and it means that with the slightest of throttle openings, not only can you apply the power as soon as the bend starts to open up, but you also have a little bit of engine braking if you need to fine tune your entry speed bearing in mind that the last thing you want to do is apply the brakes mid corner.

Position will also help you. For a left hander, a position as far out to the centre white line as you feel comfortable with will give you maximum visibility into the bend, and likewise a position towards the nearside kerb for a right hander will also benefit. It will also increase the radius, in other words the bend will not be as tight thereby allowing you to carry more corner speed.

Then you need to assess the bend. Roadside furniture, approaching vehicles, road signs, the centre white lines and what we in the trade call the "Vanishing or Limit point" which is the point where the two kerbs ahead of you appear to merge will assist you in determining the severity of the bend. As you approach the bend if it appears that the two verges are not separating, then it is likely that you have one hell of a tight bend, if it starts to separate (two verges) then that is the point where you can start to feed the power in and accelerate out of the corner.

There is an old adage of slow in and fast out. Having put all the above into practice, if you find that you are still carrying too much speed, (and it is a useful excercise anyway) look at the exit of the bend, you will find that the bike will follow your line of sight (anyone remember their shoulder checks on their test and how the bike used to wonder across the road?) As a secondary option, you can shift your body weight into the direction of the bend slightly which changes the dynamics of the machine, which coupled with looking at the exit, 99 times out of 100 will get you through.

Lastly, even though you may know the roads you are riding, treat every corner as if you are riding it for the first time. Never ride on local knowledge, that way it will always leave you a margin of error and a route out of trouble.
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It is better to arrive 30 seconds late in this world, than 30 years early in the next

[MarJay]

T.C.:
How to teach Vanishing points and special vision in one easy lesson.

Seriously though are you still doing the advanced riding stuff? I live in Reading and I could do with some advanced riding training.

I do try to use vanishing points and special vision though as well as the road positioning.

In fact I use the road positioning that you describe there just because I hate feeling like I might drift into an oncoming car/hedge! and it helps with the special vision.
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[G]

What's been mentioned up there and a lot, lot more can all be found in:

[AcIdBuRnZ]

The real answer to the original question is...

...faster than anyone else

Mark
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Past: Honda NSR125R >> Kawasaki ER-5a2 >> Kawasaki ZZR-600e1 >> Suzuki GSXR-750Y >> Honda VTR 1000 Firestorm
"Chickity China the Chinese Chicken..."

[G]

[Luke_Retrofly]

Hi
Thats the thing about riding on the road 99 times out of 100, you cant see whats round the next bend. This means that i never go to my full potential round a corner. Though taking the proper lines, ie wide/tight/wide does improve the speed you take the corner at, just watch your head when you apex mid corner on a right hander . Most of the time i try to get the revs at just before the powerband, this means that you got the acceleration when u need it, but when you do hold it open it dosnt fly off into the bushes. I have had to break mid corner a few time and its not the nicest thing, it usually sits up and start bucking about .

At the end of the day you've got to weigh up the "risk" and "fun" factor. The faster you go round a corner the riskerier it is to you, other road users/cows etc. But most of the time its more fun too. Damn if only biking wasnt so fun .

Luke
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Flounced - Long overdue
Fuck you bitch I'm in the top 10 list I can do the what the fuck I want!

[Luke_Retrofly]

Hi

[G]

[T.C]

[John]

Thanks for all that, mainly TC.

Going to have to practice it.
____________________
TT600 neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeowwww!

[jimbo]

[G]

I can't be bothered to think/argue about the physics now.... far to long since I've done such things. However, persoanlly I'm willing to believe and use what is accepted wisdom from racers over the last 30 years which they have discovered to work. What seems to be inuitive, also wins races and stops people from crashing, at all levels.
You tend to lean over the front to give better 'feel': infact generally you want the rear to loose traction before the front, while it may not be absoloutely the fastest way, it sure feels a lot safer because I a lot more rear wheel slides are recovered from than front wheel slides.

[jimbo]

Well i didn't mean to rattle your cage G.
I guess i was making a point about the difference in cornering styles and speeds for large and small bikes.
If you compare your cool 125 pic to the one below you should see the difference. The RCV rider HAS to hang off the bike, shifting his body mass well off-centre, and feeling for the touch-down with his knee. As you point out, the 125 riders are basically just leant over as far as they can go. Their body mass transfer is much less. These guys generally don't need their knee out or down to get round the corner. It's a by-product of their angle of lean.
Speaking from experience here. A friend of mine raced a CBR600 in the Regal clubmans here for 2 years, and has switched to a TZ250 for this season. The difference in style and body attitude is really obvious. The 250 brakes in half the distance, corners in half the time, and he still doesn't have to shift his weight as much as on the 600.

[chunkielad]

What you guys are discussing is based on racing and as such is not very relevant to the original question.

[needa400]

Yeah, i agree with T.C. Pre corner road positioning is important. When practising on some nice corners at home, I made the mistake of coming in fast on a corner that i had little experience of. This led to me not noticing the decreasing apex until too late, flying up over the kerb and ending up on a grass verge.
Didnt come off though, luckily. So anyway, guess the moral of the tale is make sure you are positioned well before going into the corner so you dont get any nasty surprises!!!

[Hex]