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Life of a 500cc Engine

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Bishbash
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PostPosted: 10:41 - 30 Oct 2008    Post subject: Life of a 500cc Engine Reply with quote

On average how long would a Suzuki 500 engine last? 60k? 70K miles? By average, lets say its been ridden hard at times...
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Acemastr
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PostPosted: 10:55 - 30 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as i'm aware bike engines are designed to be ridden hard, not like car engines where you change gear at 3k rpm, they are designed to be way up the rev range, apart from the usual wear and tear of any engine i expect the engine itself will last for 60k+ without much in the way of problems, only if it's been looked after, warmed up properly before high revs, properly oiled etc...
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 11:35 - 30 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

The DON-uk ought to be able to tell you. He (literally) rode one into the ground.

My current GPZ500 engine has done over 70k (one rebuild for head gasket, put new rings and camchain in at the same time). This is longer than the chassis lasted.
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Ben.
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PostPosted: 12:43 - 30 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

probably 100k plus if you do the pistons rings and cam chain at about 70k.
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Bishbash
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PostPosted: 12:52 - 30 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wicked, thanks for your replies, looks as if I will need to do the cam chain then as it sounds as if it will need doing anyway, but I will keep in mind about changing the rings to.

Thanks again.

Neil
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Thom
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PostPosted: 19:19 - 30 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which suzuki 500 are you looking at? i can only think the GS500e?
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 19:29 - 30 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

metalforever wrote:
Which suzuki 500 are you looking at? i can only think the GS500e?


One would hope he isn't meaning an RG500 anyway, otherwise I'll revise my answer to "One taillight bulb or the end of the road, whichever is shortest."*

* I saw this written in the 'warranty' section of the description on an old CB250N that was being sold for £150 in a bike shop in Edinburgh.

Suzuki also made a 500cc twin 2-stroke which was uber reliable and a rotary engined thing claiming to be somewhere in the region of 500cc which was not.
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rotax81
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PostPosted: 19:40 - 30 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

the rotary engined thing would be the RE5. i forgot all about that crock Shocked
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 21:44 - 30 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

I spoke to Stan Stephens once a few year's ago, and mentioned that i was thinking of buying a 500cc GP replica 2stroke as a project bike. He said that there are a few area's on every bike that have issue's, but that with good servicing and decent airfiltration that the RG500 lump is pretty reliable for a 2stroke. He had one in to rebuild with 38k on it, and he said it was hardly worn at all, and a new set of rings and gaskets were as much as he was prepared to do to it.
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Bishbash
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PostPosted: 08:51 - 31 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

metalforever wrote:
Which suzuki 500 are you looking at? i can only think the GS500e?


Yeah it was a GS500E, but I got outbid last night, so I just won a 1990 GPZ305 for my winter hack. Picked it up for a bargain price of £130 and the bike has only 18000 miles on the clock, true or not, I will see.
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Thom
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PostPosted: 09:40 - 31 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

did it have 64000 miles?

If so it just had new rings and valve seals Razz
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Bishbash
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PostPosted: 09:44 - 31 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, the one I was bidding on had 55000 miles I think. But this 300cc will do me for the winter.. Very Happy
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 10:31 - 31 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bishbash wrote:

Yeah it was a GS500E, but I got outbid last night, so I just won a 1990 GPZ305 for my winter hack. Picked it up for a bargain price of £130 and the bike has only 18000 miles on the clock, true or not, I will see.


Right. You'll haved heard about how these are unreliable bikes yeah? I'm about to tell you why and what to do about it.

Order a new right hand crankcase cover gasket, or be prepared to make a new one, it is a paper gasket. Order a new oil filter, buy some oil.

Drop the oil, take off the right hand side cover.

You will see an orange plastic sprocket which engages with both the crank and the oil pump. Pull this off and inspect it for signs of wear or damage on the teeth.
https://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f216/stinkwheel/305/Image091.jpg

The oil pump is held on by two cross head screws. You will need a T-bar screwdriver or an impact driver to undo them. Carefull not to burr them.
https://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f216/stinkwheel/305/Image092.jpg

Once the oil pump is off, you will see a rubber seal on the end of a pipe in the oil feed channel. Get hold of this in some needle nose pliers and pull it out. It has a guaze filter on the end which will be full of bits of crap. This is why these engines eat their top-ends.
https://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f216/stinkwheel/305/Image093.jpg

Clean it out and reassemble, put a dab of grease in the 'socket' that the oil pump drive sprocket goes into.

Fit a new paper oil filter, put new oil in. Change it regularly (it only holds 1.8l)

The one I had had done about 18k from new, had been dealer serviced and the filter was beginning to get to the point where it would cause problems.

If you don't do the above. The filter will gradually block, the pump will experience increased resistance due to having to suck oil through a smaller hole. At some point the load will exceed the strength of the teeth on that plastic sprocket and they will snap off. You now have zero oil pressure. The motorcycle is NOT fitted with an oil pressure warning light so the first you will know about it is when the cam seizes in the head. You can then sell me all your cycle parts on ebay at a knock-down price Wink .

I've rebuilt one of these engines from the ground up twice in the last six months so if you need any help, PM me.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Bishbash
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PostPosted: 11:43 - 31 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, you seemed to have made that sound quite simple, I was going to change the oil and filter anyway, but I will also change the other points on the engine.

Thanks so much for telling me this, I would have never known its reliability and what to do about it. How often would you suggest doing this process?

Cheers

Neil
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Tristan.
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PostPosted: 12:00 - 31 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was it in St Austel? If so my housemate has been umming and ahhing about getting it Very Happy
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Bishbash
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PostPosted: 12:02 - 31 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah its in St Austell...Picking it up Sunday.
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Tristan.
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PostPosted: 12:03 - 31 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haha, good, cos if he'd bought it the plan was for us to push it the 40 miles to Plymouth over a few days. So thanks for saving me from that Thumbs Up
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Bishbash
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PostPosted: 12:15 - 31 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shocked

Seriously, were you going to do that? That sounds a little crazy.
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Tristan.
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PostPosted: 12:18 - 31 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Over summer my CB had a leaky fuel tap, no reserve, no trip counter and no odometer and I had no phone.

In total I pushed it on 5 occasions, totalling just over 25 miles, with the longest stretch being 12.

So with two of us, and a lighter bike it would of been 'a breeze' Very Happy
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Bishbash
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PostPosted: 12:33 - 31 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm impressed, what a friend you are. Don't think any of my mates would help me push a bike 40 miles. In fact I know they would tell me 'sex and travel'. Wink
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 16:55 - 31 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bishbash wrote:

Thanks so much for telling me this, I would have never known its reliability and what to do about it. How often would you suggest doing this process?


About once every 15,000 miles seems about right. They are a lovely bike to ride and faster than they have any right to be (a good one will hit 110mph). Trouble is they are based on a 1970's engine design that has been tweaked and bored out to perform way beyond its original original specification.

This, coupled with the design flaw of a too-small oil pickup located too near the bottom of too small a sump means they are a fairly delicate engine.

That said, you got a running bike for £150, if it lasts the winter, you're quids-in. If you change the oil regularly, warm it up properly and don't push it too hard for too long, it might last even longer than that.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 22:17 - 31 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have heard about the possible hand grenade reputation of these GPZ305's before, and it's interesting to hear more about the reasons and what can be done to overcome them.

Just out of interest, how do the Honda CB250/400N Superdream engine's compare at high mileages, as they are another small four stroke lump with a smallish oil capacity that have been tuned and developed from earlier 2v per cyl engines? Another couple of 4 strokes that are supposed to blow up well at high mileages are the Yamaha XS500, and the Suzuki GSX250. Has anyone owned either of these and how did they last?
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Bishbash
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PostPosted: 10:52 - 03 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:

About once every 15,000 miles seems about right. They are a lovely bike to ride and faster than they have any right to be (a good one will hit 110mph).


Excellent, that makes sense, picked it up on sunday, and the engine sounds healthy as. Quite excited to work on it and get it ready for early December. Also parts are very easy to get for it at bargain price too. So as you said, looks like I am quids in.

Happy days!
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 10:59 - 03 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
Just out of interest, how do the Honda CB250/400N Superdream engine's compare at high mileages, as they are another small four stroke lump with a smallish oil capacity that have been tuned and developed from earlier 2v per cyl engines? Another couple of 4 strokes that are supposed to blow up well at high mileages are the Yamaha XS500, and the Suzuki GSX250. Has anyone owned either of these and how did they last?


The superdreams were tough. Expect to have to replace the cam chain occasionally (you can get a bit more life from a cam chain by bodging the tensioner a bit). You will have the change the oil regularly (from memory the recommeded interval is every 1800 miles, treat that as a max). Electrics were fine, but don't be surprised by problems now as the newest ones are about 25 years old.

The GSX wasn't as tough mechanically and expect lots of charging system problems unless someone has sorted it properly (mainly fitting a Superdream regulator / rectifier, but hopefully with a decent battery and generator).

All the best

Keith
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 12:45 - 03 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:

Just out of interest, how do the Honda CB250/400N Superdream engine's compare at high mileages, as they are another small four stroke lump with a smallish oil capacity that have been tuned and developed from earlier 2v per cyl engines?


Perversely, the CB250N has actually been de-tuned and un-developed over the years. The original CB250K1/2 were utter flying machines with about 20% more horsepower than the CB250N and a true 110mph top-end.

As such the CB250 has no excuses. The camchain is what usually kills them, either by jumping a tooth or by sawing its way out through the motor. Keep on top of that and they are fine.

Superdreams also have a guaze oil screen which nobody ever bothers cleaning but they are located in a slightly more sensible place. You still have to take the side cover off to get at it though.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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