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robbieguy2003
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PostPosted: 19:49 - 11 Dec 2008    Post subject: MotoGP - 600cc Category Reply with quote

https://www.visordown.com/motorcyclenews/view/motogp_dorna_announce_new_600cc_details/6090.html

What does everyone think of the new 600cc MotoGP category? Looks like almost like a production series with the limits imposed on the bike specification with an odd rule on forcing teams to sell engines.
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quacker_boy
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PostPosted: 19:55 - 11 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing It's a world wide Superstock series, very VERY limited modifcations. Waste of time and if you want to see that kind of racing, go along to your local club meeting.
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McJamweasel
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PostPosted: 20:48 - 11 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dorna wrote:
2. Inlet & Fuel System
2.1 Variable-length inlet tract systems are not permitted.
2.2 Only one throttle control valve per cylinder is permitted. No other moving devices are permitted in the inlet tract before the engine intake valve.
2.3 Throttle bodies ... must be perfectly circle


Doesn't that count out a couple of road bike engines (R6 for inlet tract and ZX6 for oval throttle bodies)?

It does sound like a shit idea though, may as well leave it at proper proddy racing.
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robbieguy2003
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PostPosted: 20:49 - 11 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah similar thoughts then, I looked at it and thought WTF. Don't quite get the decision and hope it gets changed before it's implemented.

Otherwise it'll be a load of broken supersport 600s running around a track.
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Thom
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PostPosted: 21:04 - 11 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

i like the sound of it to be honest... give a bit of additional variety to motogp which hasnt been seen in a few years?
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Barry_M2
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PostPosted: 22:17 - 11 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it will be awesome.

They are making it cheap and easy to get the most out of the machines and racing will be alot closer because of it. It will bring the smaller private and semi factory teams ALOT closer to the full factory teams.

Rider ability and setup will be the main factors in winning races Thumbs Up
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amnesia
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PostPosted: 22:30 - 11 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the compromise that every 'premier' race-bred race class will face...

...Lots of cash to give true prototype race bred machinery and push the technology forwards OR

...Restrictions that make it cheaper and therefore easier to get into the class.


It might make for closer racing, but the downside is that the need to push the technology may be reduced somewhat. Where is the incentive for the big manufacturers to be truely inventive?
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 22:38 - 11 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that they should scrap the 800cc MotoGP bikes, and admit that they failed badly with the regulation and capacity reduction, to reduce speeds. I've always said if you want to slow down MotoGP bikes, then go up to 1100-1200cc. That way you will have performance massively overwhealming the available tyre technology, and as a result i think track for track a 1200cc MotoGP bike would lap slower than the 800's! Problem solved and it would also make the racing more exciting and interesting, as i think all the rider's would be slower with bigger more powerful engines, and less traction. It would also take an exceptional rider to exploit such beasts, and as a result the racing would be closer, and much more like the 500cc days!
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ncrn
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PostPosted: 22:49 - 11 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

amnesia wrote:
It might make for closer racing, but the downside is that the need to push the technology may be reduced somewhat. Where is the incentive for the big manufacturers to be truely inventive?


Unless I'm missing the point, surely all they would have to do is beef up the technology on the road bikes as that's what they will be using, if incredible suspension becomes standard so that they can win races, I wouldn't complain.
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amnesia
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PostPosted: 22:53 - 11 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I mean is that if the regulations are severe, development boundaries would be resticted.
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ncrn
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PostPosted: 22:59 - 11 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah looking at that list it is a bit limiting..

I think that stock racing with £2000 (for example) of mods would be a fun way of doing it. If it was a case of unless you are selling it openly on the market you can't use it, then we'd get the technology benefits and the bikes could have fun things like nos/turbos bolted on.
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D O G
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PostPosted: 00:44 - 12 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

There already is a world supersports championship - that Sefalogololouoglouogguologolo bloke won it last year did he not?

I don't understand why we need another one.

I thought that the organisers of World Supersport were going to contest this class anyway?
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TeddyCanuck
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PostPosted: 00:43 - 13 Dec 2008    Post subject: more news on 600cc moto2 Reply with quote

https://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/motogp-new-moto2-600s-could-debut-in-spain-2009/
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Barry_M2
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PostPosted: 10:18 - 13 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

amnesia wrote:
It might make for closer racing, but the downside is that the need to push the technology may be reduced somewhat. Where is the incentive for the big manufacturers to be truely inventive?


You seem to forget that this class is replacing 250cc 2 strokes. When was the last time Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzuki brought out a 250 2 stroke race rep on the road? NSR250, RGV, KR1S, TZR, all 10+ year old designs.

The 250GP has had no development for the last 2 maybe 3 years, they stopped developing the engines as there are no sales of road machines, so bringing in 600cc 4 strokes will be a massive push for 600cc development, as there was NONE there before!

How can you say the push for technology may be reduced when they are going from no development what so ever to a full world championship of the 600 prototype class with full factory support!? Confused
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Ariel Badger
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PostPosted: 11:19 - 13 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Production racing is what factory racing should be about. Developments on the track will feed back into the machines we can buy in the shop.
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Barry_M2
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PostPosted: 11:29 - 13 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

1930 Ariel wrote:
Production racing is what factory racing should be about. Developments on the track will feed back into the machines we can buy in the shop.


And they will be. Only in the 600 class it will be mainly (if not all) chassis development that goes into proddy bike development.

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Al
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PostPosted: 12:07 - 13 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it will be good and like already said boost development of production chassis.
250's are good but they've had there day, its dead technology now. Also the gap between the top teams and the smaller teams is massive, you don't stand a chance unless your on one of the better bikes in 250.
The chance of getting a ride with a good team seems to be down to luck, nationality and how marketable the rider is more then just out and out skill.

Only problem I see with the new 600 production class is if it stops being a feeder class for motogp and all the new GP riders just come straight from would super bikes. People and sponsors would soon loose interest in the 600 class if it didn't have any of the up and coming GP riders in it.
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TeddyCanuck
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PostPosted: 19:42 - 13 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't see how much chassis development can go on when they are limiting the use of "exotic" materials chassis can be made of.
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Barry_M2
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PostPosted: 01:31 - 14 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

TeddyCanuck wrote:
I can't see how much chassis development can go on when they are limiting the use of "exotic" materials chassis can be made of.


Thats why you dont work in prototype motorcycle development Wink
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TeddyCanuck
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PostPosted: 12:15 - 14 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barry_MC21 wrote:
TeddyCanuck wrote:
I can't see how much chassis development can go on when they are limiting the use of "exotic" materials chassis can be made of.


Thats why you dont work in prototype motorcycle development Wink

Humm..., never made that claim, and don't know how you inferred all of that from one sentence. Middle Finger Middle Finger
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Dr. DaveJPS
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PostPosted: 12:31 - 14 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

personally i think it would be better if they replaced it with supermono which allows far more scope for technology.
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Silver
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PostPosted: 16:19 - 14 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

People are seeming to forget (or don't know?) that the MotoGP classes are for prototype machines. Comparing the new class to World Supersport, just because the engine size is the same, is pointless. You are not going to see an R6 in the new Moto2 class.

Furthermore, the future of two strokes is limited. It was obvious that this change was only a matter of time away once the two strokes disappeared from the main MotoGP class. Give it a couple of years and the 125cc class will surely be amended too...
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Barry_M2
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PostPosted: 21:38 - 14 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver wrote:
Give it a couple of years and the 125cc class will surely be amended too...


I was thinking that too, but then most of the big manufacturers still make 125cc 2-strokes. I think the 125's will be around for quite a while (although I could be wrong!) as there is still a huge market for small 2 stroke engines, its just the larger ones that have suffered, mainly over emissions I think.

But the smaller ones are reliable, easy to maintain, cheap to fix and very cheap to run.

Well, thats what I think anyway! Laughing The rest I completely agree on! Wink
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