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Bulldogs to change?

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jack_zxr400
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PostPosted: 19:22 - 14 Jan 2009    Post subject: Bulldogs to change? Reply with quote

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1114766/Iconic-British-Bulldog-scrapped-Kennel-Club-overhauls-breeding-rules.html

Not sure how many people on here have dogs (I have 3 currently) but I think it would wrong and a shame if they did change them
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 19:38 - 14 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bull Dog of 100 years ago looks very different from todays. They have been made characatures of what they have been. but now that they have been bred to look like this then it ould be kept and not taken any further.
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plugger147
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PostPosted: 19:39 - 14 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's a good thing, it's about time the kennel club did something decent for a change. I hope they are going to monitor bloodlines a bit better as well and start refusing to give certificates to breeders who inbreed as well.
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thegubner
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PostPosted: 19:42 - 14 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didnt read the article, but the bulldog having to be changed is not a shame, its something that should have already happened.

The way the bulldog has been made to look is only pleasing to us, the dog suffers to the point of cruelty all for vanity that it doesn't ask for.
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 19:44 - 14 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

the_guvnor_1_uk wrote:
I didnt read the article, but the bulldog having to be changed is not a shame, its something that should have already happened.

The way the bulldog has been made to look is only pleasing to us, the dog suffers to the point of cruelty all for vanity that it doesn't ask for.


How do fella, where have you been. nice to see you back. Thumbs Up

and i agree with what you have just said. Thumbs Up
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ish765
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PostPosted: 20:01 - 14 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep I agree. It was wrong to change them to what they are now. I lot of them suffer due to overzealous manipulation to what we find astatically pleasing.
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jack_zxr400
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PostPosted: 20:05 - 14 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

its wrong to change them to what they are like now but then are they guna do exactly the same thing to change them to what they think is right? and who gets to decide what they should look like?
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plugger147
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PostPosted: 20:09 - 14 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

They looked a lot better and healthier before they were made to look like they do now, the older dog walked not waddled and had a very nice looking face compared to the wrinkled up mug they have now.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 20:09 - 14 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Gov wazup?
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strag
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PostPosted: 20:32 - 14 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

'Breed standards' endorsed by the KC have made a right mess (health) of a lot of breeds. In particular flat faced dogs, i.e. bulldogs, boxers, to the point where they have seriou breathing problems.

The inbreeding that so called 'caring' breeders have carried out is shocking. All the majority of them care about is meeting breed standard, not the health and well-being of the breed.

Have a look through a few of the links relating to the BBCs documentary about pedigree dogs, breeders and the KC.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=BBC+kennel+club&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a
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mistergixer
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PostPosted: 21:06 - 14 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I won't be sorry to see them go either, they're a pretty hideous looking dog IMHO.
Historically, i don't think it's really the KC's fault that the Bulldog is such a mess, i think the Bulldog died out back in the 1800's when 'bloodsports' (bull & bearbaiting etc)were outlawed (1835 IIRC)and no-one really wanted big fierce dogs that ate loads of food anymore - so they bred the modern squat deformed 'English Bulldog' as a more acceptable 'companion' dog.
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 21:10 - 14 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
...while a leading vet said it was like watching a 'parade of mutants'.


Absolutely spot on. Most of these so-called 'breeds' aren't dogs, they're more like something from a painting by Hieronymus Bosch. And quite reflect the mentalities of their owners too.
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yen_powell
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PostPosted: 21:42 - 14 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do they still force them to wear top hats and union jack waistcoats?
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plugger147
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PostPosted: 21:51 - 14 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

After having our dobe(R.I.P Jet) I'd never own a kc reg dog again, a great temperament and character let down by the body of inbred freak. The kennel club weren't even interested when I rung to tell them he'd died of a heart problem that was very probably genetical.
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oldpink
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PostPosted: 22:01 - 14 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

about time this happened
dogs that have to have cesarean section births tells you theres a problem
with there breeding not to mention other medical issues they have
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Howling TerrorOutOfOffice
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PostPosted: 23:04 - 14 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cats with no fur,dogs born doomed from the start with inbreeding ailments,sheep bred so they produce more meat at the expense of being able to birth easy. Cattle also have been genetically tuned-up.

We just can't help meddling, some for good and plenty for bad.

2 of my 3 dogs playing.

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pyx_e
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PostPosted: 23:48 - 14 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stink will be along soon to kick some mutant loving ass.
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plugger147
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PostPosted: 23:50 - 14 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think he needs too, Laughing .
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 02:46 - 15 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Traditional bulldog:
https://www.boydsbulldogs.com/photos/Emmasun.jpg

Kennel club version:
https://www.petcity.gr/images/products/english_bulldog.jpg

French kennel club version:
https://animal-world.com/dogs/Non-Sporting-Dog-Breeds/images/FrenchBulldogWDN_Ap6D.jpg

I rest my case.
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WildGoose
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PostPosted: 02:57 - 15 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Makes me sick that we impose on a dogs quality of life simply because we can. Scored on how we think they should look, and how they fit in with the image we wish to put out... wankers, basically.

There needs to be an end to the fashion accesory dogs, these fucked up breeds sit in the back of your trendy BMW mini clubman on a pink pillow with tassles.

Get a grip, and get a real dog.

There is an obsession with "what is it?" because people are going on a pre-conceived set of standards.

Get it all the time with ours, apparently he isnt 'labrador' enough for some. Assuming they mean pointy faces and funny walk due to fucked back legs/hips. I'll take mine anytime, thanks.
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ish765
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PostPosted: 05:27 - 15 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:


Wow... The Traditional bulldog looks so much nicer. What a handsome chap.

We used to have Alsatians and though they are a fine breed they all suffer in later life. There back legs are bread shorter to make the back end lower.

Basically there back legs go in later life. As a dog lover it is a real hard thing to see.
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 10:14 - 15 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

ish765 wrote:


We used to have Alsatians and though they are a fine breed they all suffer in later life. There back legs are bread shorter to make the back end lower.

Basically there back legs go in later life. As a dog lover it is a real hard thing to see.


My nan used to have a couple, they always suffer with back leg problems(as said) and hip dislocations.

Used to have a boxer, died a heart murmur(something which many boxers suffer from).

Although in the Daily Mail story it has a picture of the infections on the face of the Bulldog. IMO this is more down to lack of care than a genetic flaw. You need to clean the folds in a bull dog's face most days otherwise it will get infected. Then again it is the Daily Mail and the picture happened to fit with their story.

I do agree that the breeding guidelines have been taken too far now. Like the KC doesn't recognise Dalmatians with "liver" coloured spots!
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Tonka
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PostPosted: 13:55 - 15 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

ish765 wrote:
[ As a dog lover it is a real hard thing to see.


I think that this is the whole point - if you're a genuine 'dog', 'cat' or any other type of animal lover you should be uncomfortable knowing that such actions made it suffer. Good animal husbandry, whether domestic pet or commercial, should cause the minimum amount of suffering to the animals concerned. It's common sense and there are too many people out there who have completed lost sight of reality and are just selfish and moronic!

We can all eat animals that have had a proper life cycle, but it costs money and imo if that means you pay more and eat less then that's what should happen.

If you want to impress the neighbours and have them think you're posh because you own a pedigree pet, well.......... Rolling Eyes Go wave your cheque book at an inanimate object instead.

The KC are doing the right thing now, but they should have done it sooner and let's hope they actually 'do' the right thing and don't just talk about it!
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mistergixer
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PostPosted: 15:21 - 15 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before i got my dog (SBT) recently, i did a bit of research into the 'Bull' breeds and their history.
The 'Traditional' Bulldog Stinkwheel shows is not the 'original' Bulldog - originally, the Bulldog was a taller, leaner and larger beast all together. The Bulldog comes from the Mollossian (sp?) family of dogs (English Mastiff, Dogue du Bordeaux etc)and shares their large, muscular build and heavy thickset skull.
Traditionally, the Bulldog was a multi-purpose dog; mostly it was used for herding livestock (esp cattle), as a guard dog, and for protecting herdsmen from wild animals (wolves etc). It was also (less frequently) used for bear-baiting - this was primarily for the purpose of tenderising the meat prior to butchery(it was apparently a crime for a butcher to sell 'unbaited' bull meat), and was less common than in later years (1700 - 1850).
In these years, 'bloodsports' became a popular form of public entertainment and would be frequently staged at fairs and shows around the country. Aside from the human bloodsports (prizefighting etc)at the shows, the most popular events (drawing the most prize money& wagers) were bear and bullbaiting.
Given the popularity of the animal sports, the Bulldog design became altered slightly in order to make it more successful; the dog became shorter in stature and more squat and muscular(supposedly in order for it avoid the bull's horns as it approached), the head and jaws strengthened and enlarged(obviously, in order to obtain a better grip), and the hind quarters made more slender (supposedly this reduced the risk of spinal injuries when the dog was thrown off by the bull).
By the time bull and bear baiting were made illegal (1835), the original breed of Bulldog had become pretty much extinct(although traces of it continue in the Bullmastiff etc), and the demise of baiting led to the demise of the 'traditional' (fighting) Bulldog(although its blood carried on in the bull terrier crossbreeds, mostly bred by northerners for dog fighting), and the creation of the modern absurdity which positively cannot do any of the work that either an original or traditional Bulldog could do.

From this (1800s):
https://barkadaworkingdog.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/criprosa.29170300_std.jpg

To this (1830s):
https://barkadaworkingdog.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/BenWhite1836.29170312_std.jpg

To this:
https://www.petcity.gr/images/products/english_bulldog.jpg
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ish765
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PostPosted: 17:46 - 15 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

mistergixer wrote:
By the time bull and bear baiting were made illegal (1835), the original breed of Bulldog had become pretty much extinct(although traces of it continue in the Bullmastiff etc), and the demise of baiting led to the demise of the 'traditional' (fighting) Bulldog(although its blood carried on in the bull terrier crossbreeds, mostly bred by northerners for dog fighting),


So is it actually possible to bring back the original bulldog?
.
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