Court Summons

TheDonUK · World Chat Champion Joined: 20 Feb 2006 Karma :

25 Weeks after getting nabbed by traffic police behind a sign on the A4 with a Radar (ProLaser3) for 68 in a temporary 40.

The ACPO guidelines state that 66+ in a 40 is a summons instead of 3 points and a fine by the side of the road/ post, his radar gun showed 68, 2 mph over...

Also the summons today came 9 days within the 6 months they have, gutted.

I was speeding, but posed no danger to anyone in those circumstances on a 3 lane dual carriageway with brand new 6 pot calipers.

I have the option to plead guilty by post, in person at court or plead not guilty.

I will most probably goto the court on the day (May) and plead guilty and take 6 points or a ban and some dirty fine,

Is there any avenue with ProLser3 devices and accurate readings on motorcycles? Or did i just get caught and should accept it?

Im leaning to the latter, i have 3 points which i got over 2 years ago during my "33"bhp period and so that would put me on 9 with one minor lapse costing me my licence.

/vent
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[Current Bikes - GSXR-750 K5 & C90-97 ] [Previous Bikes: Runner 125, YBR 125, GS500, Bandit 600, Hornet 600, ZX6R-99, C90-99, R1-99, XT600E-04, GSXR-750 K4, CRF250L '16]

sickpup · Old Timer Joined: 21 Apr 2004 Karma :

TheDonUK · World Chat Champion Joined: 20 Feb 2006 Karma :

It was on the A4, just where the M40 flyover splits off and goes its own way, Brentford ish.

And i have no idea it was once a 60 but has been 40 for ages with the temp signs, you angling for incorrect signage as a possible avenue of wiggle?

I scanned the trafic polices witness statement for posterity.

I dont think i self incriminated except for maybe saying i was out for a nice evening ride, it sounds to the ear as out for a hoon.

https://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc21/thedonuk/nicked1.jpg
https://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc21/thedonuk/nicked2.jpg

Im sure his device was calibrated out the ying yang, but was it calibrated on a motorcycle, dont they give false readings for vehicles with a small frontal area?
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[Current Bikes - GSXR-750 K5 & C90-97 ] [Previous Bikes: Runner 125, YBR 125, GS500, Bandit 600, Hornet 600, ZX6R-99, C90-99, R1-99, XT600E-04, GSXR-750 K4, CRF250L '16]

MattEMulsion · World Chat Champion Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Karma :

It does make you wonder whether they do actually perform all of these checks before they use the device and log it accordingly, or whether they just take it out of the box and start clocking peoples speeds.

I also have to wonder whether they do actually assess in their mind that you are speeding before they use the device to measure it. I would be more inclined to think that they are just constantly aiming it at the oncoming traffic and waiting for a decent speed to register off a vehicle that is worth stopping.

So TheDonUK - in honesty were you going that fast or do you really think that the speed they got you at is wrong?
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Yamaha YZF-R6

ajb · Crazy Courier Joined: 14 May 2008 Karma :

If I was in your position, I would probably plead guilty.

If you resist it by making accusations that the equipment was rubbish etc, might just look like the average speeder trying to pull a fast one, and get the book throw at you.
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CBR125R '05 > CB500 '00 > CBR600F '99

rainer · Nova Slayer Joined: 25 Oct 2007 Karma :

Did they pull you over at the time? Dunno anything about the defence just curious Thumbs Up

TheDonUK · World Chat Champion Joined: 20 Feb 2006 Karma :

Honestly i was probably doing at least 60 as i had just accelerated to make an overtake, so to the letter of the law i was speeding.

I dont feel that speed was inappropriate or dangerous in the circumstances but i got caught i guess, i will probably plead guilty.

There are all kind of forms to fill in, especially means of income/outgoings, when they see my dire financial position maybe the court will be leniant... and i can do one of those chavvy £1 a week repayments

rainer: i got stopped by the side of the road, with retrospect i should have just gunned it the moment he stepped out into the road, the plate would have been facing the ground, instead like a fool i stopped and now this nearly 6 months later, he wasent joking when he said i will get to sweat for 6 months about it, after all this time i was half hoping he was a decent guy and was just trying to shit me up a bit, but i guess traffic police is traffic police...

I will take this one as i got caught but it is slightly annoying they hide there with the radar gun, jump out, i obveously had time to stop so was not out of control, nobody or nothing was hurt but i am going to be convicted of a crime.... bah
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[Current Bikes - GSXR-750 K5 & C90-97 ] [Previous Bikes: Runner 125, YBR 125, GS500, Bandit 600, Hornet 600, ZX6R-99, C90-99, R1-99, XT600E-04, GSXR-750 K4, CRF250L '16]

MattEMulsion · World Chat Champion Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Karma :

I think that you are going to have to just take it on the chin. I can't see any way that you are going to be able to get out of it. Just aim for the most lenient penalty that you can get away with.
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Yamaha YZF-R6

TheDonUK · World Chat Champion Joined: 20 Feb 2006 Karma :

Yea you are probably right, In the grand scheme of things that i can think of there has been 6-8 times when i could have got points (ie a GATSO flashed or was pulled over by the rozzers) but got off somehow so it catches up with you eventually.

Still gutted though if i get banned i might have to sell the bike and buy one of those expensive lightweight bicycles..
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[Current Bikes - GSXR-750 K5 & C90-97 ] [Previous Bikes: Runner 125, YBR 125, GS500, Bandit 600, Hornet 600, ZX6R-99, C90-99, R1-99, XT600E-04, GSXR-750 K4, CRF250L '16]

sickpup · Old Timer Joined: 21 Apr 2004 Karma :

Well from the officers statement he could have actually measured the speed of the car behind you.

teampots · Spanner Monkey Joined: 01 May 2007 Karma :

Just wondering, in the report it states the device was calibrated to only 131.2 Feet yet the distance he clocked you at was 475Feet

can it still be that accurate at over thee times the calibrated distance?
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Prev - Bandit x2 (Killed) CB400 (Superfour) CBR125
Currently Restoring - Kawasaki S1 250 Triple (Slowly but surely)

ajb · Crazy Courier Joined: 14 May 2008 Karma :

I know nothing of these devices.

But if they really do use lasers, then surely it is only reliant on the laws of physics, which don't change much on Earth.

Surely it's something like Red-shift? If they can use it to judge the speed of a star at XX-trillion miles away, surely it work's down a road.

Meh.
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CBR125R '05 > CB500 '00 > CBR600F '99

..... · Quote Me Happy Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Karma :

https://forums.pepipoo.com/

iooi · Super Spammer Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Karma :

multijoy · World Chat Champion Joined: 03 Oct 2008 Karma :

Plead not guilty, request a jury trial and watch the CPS drop it for not being in the public interest.

Quick ninja edit: Follow up on Sickpup's point about the TRO. If they've cocked up the paperwork for it, it'll be much easier to go down that avenue than arguing with a copper in court.
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'11 CBF1000A, '99 C90, '98 CB500
silky666: He rode amazingly well considering his bike is the weight of a small van and had slicks on.

jack_zxr400 · World Chat Champion Joined: 15 Jul 2008 Karma :

the policeman that wrote that sounds like abit of a dick tbh

and yea id question the device he was using and how he was using it

ask a decent solicitor, my mums a solicitor and my brother in law is a barrister so ill see what they think Thumbs Up

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Previous Bike: ZXR 400
Current Bike: R6
Test Date: 8/8/2008-PASSED

Kal · World Chat Champion Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Karma :

Dr Clark on Laser speed devices

and James MacGregor 2005

Give notice that you are going to Court and request access to the evidence, on the laserIII that should include video, although that is only out to 300m so there might not be there in your case.

I would ask how the machine was calibrated, what precautions were taken to prevent it picking up stray reflections and the slippage effect

[quote]Colorado v Guyton-Docket #832331 - The sighting window or “heads up display” of the Pro Laser III was challenged as to it being an exact representation of the laser’s beam divergence and targeting of a speeding vehicle by the defendant. Expert testimony by Scott Patterson confirmed the laser beam to be narrower than the red aiming dot of the heads up display or sight reticle. Mr. Patterson confirmed as long as the red dot is kept on a particular point of the vehicle, such as the front grill, the laser will be consistent in its reporting of speed and distance. The defendant’s conviction was confirmed and the laser was given judicial notice by the court.

MarkJ · World Chat Champion Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Karma :

Also they're also only supposed to point it at a flat vertical surface i.e. a number plate. I don't think a ZX6 has a flat part to the front of it at all Thinking

Are they allowed to use laser cameras at dusk?

sickpup · Old Timer Joined: 21 Apr 2004 Karma :

pyx_e · World Chat Champion Joined: 07 Nov 2007 Karma :

If you are going to have a punt I would ask to see the calibration document because he seems to be makig a real effort in his statement to show it was accurate. He tested it two or three times after doing you. Makes me think he didn't do it beforehand.
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Kawasaki: ER5, Versys, VN900.

ajb · Crazy Courier Joined: 14 May 2008 Karma :

headgear · Scooby Slapper Joined: 02 Aug 2006 Karma :

Was the speed gun home office approved for motorcycles? a few seem not to be but are hushed over for the ever important cash revenue that needs be raised.
Hell we are fighting numerous wars that are not ours to fight, the credit crunch, the government is spending fortunes bailing out corrupt banks / bankers / polititians, supplying accomodation and every benifit that can be claimed for all the immigrants / asylum seekers, while those that fought wars to make this country what it was before the political correct brigade got in, have to literally beg for what should rightfully be theirs. Evil or Very Mad

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Cover me in tuna and throw me to the lesbians.

riichy · World Chat Champion Joined: 12 Apr 2005 Karma :

Plead guilty, probably get points and a fine. p1ss em off and waste time and you may get a ban...

Karma

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.......... PLOD ............ zx636 2004

Bofh5 · World Chat Champion Joined: 25 Oct 2007 Karma :

the other option is just to drag it out as long as possible.
mine took nearly 2 years to get to court as i requested both coppers be there and then i was out the country on business etc so by the time i got to court to be sodomised by the British Justice System my points only had another year to run.
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TheDonUK · World Chat Champion Joined: 20 Feb 2006 Karma :

Not that i like to bend over and take it from big brother but i think i will plead guilty in person, The court case is right in the middle of my final year exams, i dont really need the stress...
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[Current Bikes - GSXR-750 K5 & C90-97 ] [Previous Bikes: Runner 125, YBR 125, GS500, Bandit 600, Hornet 600, ZX6R-99, C90-99, R1-99, XT600E-04, GSXR-750 K4, CRF250L '16]