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Blipping the throttle - I know, it's been done...

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Thom
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PostPosted: 11:36 - 11 May 2009    Post subject: Blipping the throttle - I know, it's been done... Reply with quote

I've been trying this blipping the throttle on the downshift lark to try and make my downshifting smoother.

Previously i wouldnt do this and could unly let the clutch out very slowly so the gears/engine could catch up with one another - kinda like i was slipping the clutch.

Now, having tried blipping the throttle ive noticed it certainly does make the downshifts smooth and sweet, but i only get it right maybe 1 in 10 or even 15 times.

How do you do it?

Currently my 'technique' is:
Roll off throttle, clutch in, 'blip' throttle (Although its more like rev the engine?), clutch out and repeat if neccesary.

Does this sound right?

When you guys say 'blip the throttle' if if coming down from high revs, a small twist of the throttle doesnt seem to be enough and i need to rev the engine more for it to be smoother.

Maybe i should try using my brakes more to help?

Maybe you lot should just teach me how to ride again Smile

Any advise would be great, and if it makes a difference its a xj600s divvy i ride (Of which wont shift up or down without clutch)
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Previous Bikes: 1990 Honda NSR125 'Rothmans' (The smoking one), 1990 Suzuki GS500e 'Caf? fighter' (The loud one), 1987 Kawasaki GPX400r (The quick one), 1997 XJ600s Diversion (The reliable one), 2000 Kawasaki ER-5 (The spontaneously combustive one)
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Thom
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PostPosted: 12:12 - 11 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

this may sound stupid but how soon quickly should i release the clutch?

I mean if i do it slowly surely it defeats the object of blipping and if i do it quickly it would probably still feel jumpy?

Im considering this an 'advanced' technique so that i dont sound such a twat! Laughing
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Previous Bikes: 1990 Honda NSR125 'Rothmans' (The smoking one), 1990 Suzuki GS500e 'Caf? fighter' (The loud one), 1987 Kawasaki GPX400r (The quick one), 1997 XJ600s Diversion (The reliable one), 2000 Kawasaki ER-5 (The spontaneously combustive one)
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DEN MONKEY
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PostPosted: 12:23 - 11 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

for me it's all at the same time.... blip, clutch in, change down and then clutch out.

Kinda hard to know how you do something when you do it all the time.

The timing isn't so much the clutch but when you actually push down to change the gear and blip at the right time.

Just take ya time you will get used to it.

Be prepared to look like a nonce though if you try it in front of a girl and don't quite have the clutch in. Lurching forward like a maniac with eyes wide open like you're about to shit yourself.
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 12:55 - 11 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

metalforever wrote:
this may sound stupid but how soon quickly should i release the clutch?

I mean if i do it slowly surely it defeats the object of blipping and if i do it quickly it would probably still feel jumpy?

Im considering this an 'advanced' technique so that i dont sound such a twat! Laughing


The only thing different between a non-blip down-change and a blipped down-change is you blip the throttle for the latter. Nothing else changes, nothing else is different.

The knack is making sure you feed the clutch in before the blip tails off. If you let the clutch in too slowly you lose the advantage of the blip; if you let it in too quickly you can either flip the bike (highly unlikely) or lock up the rear wheel.

The idea is to match the engine revs to the speed of the gearbox/rear wheel. It doesn't have to be 100% perfect, because any blipped match is better than the match you'll get without the blip.

The amount of blip is dependent on your speed and original revs in the gear from which you're shifting down. If you're burbling along you really don't need to blip. If you're coming down from a screamer that's when you need to blip, otherwise you will get rear-wheel lockup (unless you feed the clutch in real slow, and put lots of nice wear on it).

The best way to practice is to go along slowly and do it at low revs and low speed. Throttle off, pull clutch-lever in, down shift, blip throttle and feed clutch back in (release lever). Do it all day long until it becomes second nature and you no longer have to consciously think about it. Then you can start picking up the speed.

Once you've mastered it, and have an impressive bike, find a high-school near a set of lights and come past at about 120mph at kicking-out time and blip down all the way through the box up to the lights (make sure they're red) and you'll get a good bunch of hot school-girls asking you for autographs and babies. It's really coolio. Thumbs Up
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Last edited by Hetzer on 12:59 - 11 May 2009; edited 1 time in total
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 12:56 - 11 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

DEN MONKEY wrote:
for me it's all at the same time.... blip, clutch in, change down and then clutch out.

Kinda hard to know how you do something when you do it all the time.

The timing isn't so much the clutch but when you actually push down to change the gear and blip at the right time.

Just take ya time you will get used to it.

Be prepared to look like a nonce though if you try it in front of a girl and don't quite have the clutch in. Lurching forward like a maniac with eyes wide open like you're about to shit yourself.


"Blip, clutch in"...?! I'll assume that was a moment of confusion. Laughing
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 12:58 - 11 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

I am not sure I can say anything useful as I have done it so long that I do not think about it (car or bike). Indeed have to think about not doing it.

However I would just say practice. Point of doing it is to even the engine and road speed up for the new gear so that you can just let go of the clutch.

All the best

Keith
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Welshd1k
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PostPosted: 13:00 - 11 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

like others have said its just something you do >< dont even think about it
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KevTM
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PostPosted: 13:10 - 11 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hard to say the process because it all happens very quickly, as if you do everything at the same time.

Just keep practicing and listen to how the engine sounds, you'll find it'll come naturally.
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 13:27 - 11 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

How's it hard to say the process? It's not facking rocket-science, is it. Rolling Eyes Laughing

Unless a normal gear-change is "hard to say" too? Think 'normal gear change', then just add 'blipped throttle' into the mix.

a) Roll off throttle.
b) Pull in clutch-lever.
c) Select gear down.
d) Blip throttle (OPTIONAL EXTRA).
e) Let clutch-lever out.

When you let the clutch-lever out you are feeding the rear wheel into the engine.

How fast do you want the engine to be going when you feed the rear wheel into it? If the engine is going too slowly the rear wheel will lock up. If the engine is going too fast the rear wheel will flip the bike. If the engine is going just right the rear wheel will cuddle it.

The gear you're in plays a part too, IF you go down more than one gear but don't slow the bike with the brake too. The rear wheel can't do 100mph if you feed the clutch back into too low a gear, it will lock up the rear wheel. Opposite to that, if you rev the motor too high and feed a slower rear wheel into it the wheel will try to catch up with the motor and flip the bike (or do a nice wheelie if that was your intention, though usually that's achieved without changing down a gear).

If you can't understand the simple mechanical processes at work you're more likely to fack something up. Understand why and how something does the thing it does before trying to make it do it, you'll live longer (or whatever).
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 13:40 - 11 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Audible cues:

If you feed the rear wheel into the engine where the rear wheel is going SLOWER than the engine you will hear the revs fall.

If you feed the rear wheel into the engine where the rear wheel is going faster than the engine you will hear the revs rise.

Ideally you want the rear wheel going a bit faster than the engine, such that you get a nice bit of engine-braking going on. As you feed the clutch in you'll hear the engine revs rise slightly (or a lot, depending on your aggression of the moment, outside the school that needs to be a fair bit) and then fall as the closed throttle/engine slows the rear wheel.

Remember, you are BLIPPING the throttle and then closing it, not blipping it and then holding it open. Holding it open on a down-shift is another thing entirely (wheelying or coming out of a corner with lots of gas and energy for max acceleration).

Once you have become a riding god and all these things come without conscious thought you'll have mastered your bike and all good things will follow. Some bad as well, like going up the front of a truck at 120mph. See 'good cornering' for that one.
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KevTM
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PostPosted: 13:59 - 11 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

^hard to say as in that you start to do one before you're finished doing the other..

Dunno about you but when I do the whole process is probably under 1 second. I start to roll back on the throttle for the blip at the same time as I start to pull in the clutch. I would say I hit peak 'blip' as I stick it down a gear - one fluid motion, not singular steps - they all sort of mingle in together.
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Smooth
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PostPosted: 15:15 - 11 May 2009    Post subject: Re: Blipping the throttle - I know, it's been done... Reply with quote

metalforever wrote:
Now, having tried blipping the throttle ive noticed it certainly does make the downshifts smooth and sweet, but i only get it right maybe 1 in 10 or even 15 times.


Just keep trying it & it will come. There's a lot of 'feel' required. I taught myself to do it fairly quickly and it now seems like a natural thing to do.

-I just wish that my car had a brake and accelerator that were closer together as it's difficult to do under braking.
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Paulington
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PostPosted: 15:20 - 11 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once you get it it does become second nature.

It is just as Hetzer described.. no secret science or anything, just practice.
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 15:22 - 11 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hetzer wrote:
(unless you feed the clutch in real slow, and put lots of nice wear on it).


On the flip side, when you blip the throttle you also use more fuel.

Personally I can't do it, not too fussed as it doesn't appear to hold me back, I just need to be a little more careful when letting the clutch out on track.
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s44678
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PostPosted: 19:13 - 11 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

ns125rk90 wrote:
><


Hi.

I've seen this in a few of your posts now. It's not an established punctuation mark as far as I'm aware, so I get a bit confused when I see it.
Am I supposed to pause (like a comma) when I see the '><' ? Or await some further information (like a semi-colon)? Or just accelerate right through it and pretend it's not there. Maybe it denotes a missing word. I just don't know, and it's causing me some distress.
Please could you clarify.

Kind regards
Sam
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The Tot
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PostPosted: 19:37 - 11 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

You get used to the motion after a while. I find it steadies the bike nicely when setting yourself up for a corner.

My sequence goes like

1) Clutch in
2) Blip
3) Snick it into the next gear down the same time your wrist opens your throttle
4) let the clutch out "progressively" when your wrist is at 80-90% open throttle position

It takes some feeling but after a while, you just get used to doing it. I picked it up when going on a ride out with Swaffs 5 years ago! Shocked and noticed how much smoother the XR125 was during braking.

In those 4 steps, the more experienced you get, the more of a blurr those steps become until they end up as one fluid motion. The quicker you blip the throttle ( combined with a larger throttle opening), the quicker you can go down the gearbox without unsettling the rear end. It's good if you want to really attack a favourate corner and be as late as you dare on the brakes.. or can be used in emergency situations, such as a car pulling out 100 yards away when you're going faster than you originally thought Thumbs Up

Due to the way i hold the throttle and brakes, i have the front brake engaged with my ring, middle and pinkie and use my palm to blip (index and thumb are gripping the throttle). I've grown used to braking like that and it's very smooth, especially with pillions.
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yuri2085
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PostPosted: 20:10 - 11 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Think of them as eyes.
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Thom
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PostPosted: 20:18 - 11 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yuri, What the fuck!?
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Previous Bikes: 1990 Honda NSR125 'Rothmans' (The smoking one), 1990 Suzuki GS500e 'Caf? fighter' (The loud one), 1987 Kawasaki GPX400r (The quick one), 1997 XJ600s Diversion (The reliable one), 2000 Kawasaki ER-5 (The spontaneously combustive one)
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Faraz
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PostPosted: 20:24 - 11 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hetzer wrote:

a) Roll off throttle.
b) Pull in clutch-lever.
c) Select gear down.
d) Blip throttle (OPTIONAL EXTRA).
e) Let clutch-lever out.



This. Step D is straight after/at the same time as step C.
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5v3d3b0
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PostPosted: 21:24 - 11 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only reason for doing this that I can see is when you're braking hard?
How do you blip the throttle when you're fingers are grasping the brake lever? Surely it's uncomfortable to say the least...
What's wrong with regular brake plus engine brake? Or when changing down normally just let the clutch out slow.
I'll definitely try it on the zxr when I get it cause the engine braking is pretty brutal compared to the rs 125 Laughing
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colin1
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PostPosted: 21:35 - 11 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with titz on this one. I dont think you need to throttle off. You just clutch in, and match the revs to the engine speed and wheel speed for the gear you are changing to.
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Faraz
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PostPosted: 21:48 - 11 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Double post.
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Last edited by Faraz on 21:50 - 11 May 2009; edited 2 times in total
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Faraz
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PostPosted: 21:48 - 11 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

colin1 wrote:
I'm with titz on this one. I dont think you need to throttle off. You just clutch in, and match the revs to the engine speed and wheel speed for the gear you are changing to.



Blipping sounds cooler. Laughing
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