Gear Changing, without clutch?......

[Slimboyfat]

Wierd i know, but some of my work mates have 600cc bikes and i was chatting about changing gears at speed and they said most of the time you can just ease off the throttle, go up a gear(no clutch), back on throttle and it is ok. Now call me old fashioned but isn't that what the clutch is for.......? Please help as I am getting a new nsr soon and i am major confused!

[Maple]

Is this for road use or for track? If its for road there is not much point. If its for track its best you get a quick shift fitted (on a 600). If you are thinking of doing this on the road on a 125 it wont be long before you knock the cogs off .. a 2 stroke revs more and you will ruin the box. The 600 guys are obviously on a four stroke and the engine dies quicker so you get less revs at the time of shutting off. Your thinking is right, the clutch is there for a purpose. One of my friends used to do this, he timed it just right in speed to change gear and then wondered why he knackered the box. So my advice is a BIG NO NO!

[Phil.]

Motor cross riders do that alot, i tried it on my NSR a few times but it never seemd to go in a smoothly as it would using the clutch.

Keep usin your clutch, better safe than sorry. But if you give it a try, dont do it when changing down.. not unless you want a new gear box

[Slimboyfat]

Cheers guys, sorted that out, but im still nervous about driving it for the first time, being a scooter owner first of all, any tips on that??
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[Maple]

Well...

Let it run for a bit first to get the temp up a bit. 2-strokes dont like ticking over very much cos they choke up. Without putting it to harsh they like to be run hard. One thing you will notice is when you change down the bike will still run on .. changing down will not act like a brake. Whereas a four stroke will shut off when you change down. You will soon get used to it. Its not hard, Christ if I can ride one anyone can.

Suppose the quicker you can get it off choke the better. Once its off choke it will run smooth. Good Luck and have fun.

[G]

I've been using clutchless shifts fairly regularly for the (on and off) five years I've been riding. I've read in various sources that clutchless shifting can actually be better for your engine *if* you get it right... The idea being that the gears don't have to mesh at all becasue they snick straight into place.
I've used clutchless shifting on my NS & NSR and not had any problems, the only engine I've killed was my KLR and that's mostly to do with 40,000 miles and too many unskilled wheelies .

Once you get some practice you can do it up without any hassle and pretty smoothly down as well.
The way I do it is to put a very light upwards force on the gear lever, then dip the throttle. The gear should change at the right point without any further input. Once you get used to it you can put a bit more pressure on the lever and dip the throttle a bit less.

[McJamweasel]

I tried clutchless changes a few times but just couldnt be bothered to get it right. I can change with cluctch pretty quick anyway(lets face it, its not like it a slow process) and it dont really do much for ya unless youre racing.
And as for the engine braking thingy, I get quite a bit from my nsr, obviously not as much as a 4stroke but still enuff 2 stop me. Its just a shame that it buggers 2 stroke engines if ya do it too much (with no throttle theres only the idle 2 stroke goin into the engine which dont ube enuff for higher revs)
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[TiN]

MCN gave away a supplement a few issues ago that mentions this technique, and they also mentioned that it's not as useful for the road as it is for the track...

...they also gave advice on changing down gears: basically, you should blip the throttle just before you change down...

Tin

[TJ NSR]

i tend to change gears without clutch for a few year also on my nsr a lot, and i find the gear change much smoother....


i heard it doesnt damage ur gearbox, read the MCN bit about gears its quite good.

[DrSeuss]

Up changes are fairly easy you just dip the throttle and cog it up a gear. Down changes are a little difficult. Often if you get it wrong you'll lock the wheel and the engine will grate horribly. When you get more experienced get a shitty motoX bike and knacker that learning to wheelie and clutchless shift.

[Dylan]

Definately better clutchless, do it overtaking and it feels like no loss of power between the gears. Have to do it quick otherwise it feels all jerky. Cause its a 2 stoke and no engine braking then clutchless downshifts seem pointless but instead i just blipp the throtle.
Dyl

[clemsta]

I used to use clutchless gear changes but i foung out that it can damage the gear box so i stopped, definetly DO NOT change down without the cluth especially at hi revs because i find that the back wheel locks, pretty scary if your just about to go round a corner.

[numark1]

I always change gears without using the clutch when doing motocross mainly because you if you take your hand of to reach for the clutch then you have less control of the bike and its slower. Not by much but in motocross like every other motor sport if it takes a second of your lap time then it has to be worth it. My crosser is a 2 stroke and i always use clutchless gear changes and it still runs fine. I'm not sure if it does affect the gearbox/engine or not.

Hope this helps

[Milo]

I can change up really smoothly through all the gears on my XJ900

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[MarJay]

Clutchless changes are noticeably faster on powerful bikes (600+) if you get them right!

Probably not woth the bother on an NSR though.
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[mrchips]

You can change gears smoothly without the clutch if you get the revs right.

[Milo]

Sorry for my earlir short post - I was in a rush.
I don't keep constant pressure upward on my gear lever, but maybe I'll give that a go.
I instead get to the point I want to change, dip the throttle so it puts less stress on things and change up. So hard to get out of the habbit of using a clutch though!
On my bike I'd only change up without using the clutch above about 4k.
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[ezj]

I have to agree...

Theoretically I always thought clutchless changing must be bad news for the bike, but I had an NS125R and used to do it all the time. It was certainly quicker and it never ever caused me a problem (I had the bike tuned and rode it commonly like this for a number of years).

I wouldn't recommend it though, I just didn't care in them days

[The Dude]

I have been doing this on my RS125 for the past month and most of the time it is pretty smooth. I normally only do it after 3rd gear. I totally close the throttle and kick it up to the next gear and then open the throttle again. I have read in a few other places that the correct way to do it is to apply a little pressure upwards on the gear selecter, roll off a little on the power and it should go up on it's own. I have never tried that though. I'm always afraid of accidently kicking it into the next gear while still having the power on.
By the way. Who changes the little statements under the nicknames? Last time i was on here, which was a lot of weeks ago, mine said L plate worrior. I know i didn't do anything to change it.lol

[BiKeBiKeBiKe]

Its All About Revs Mainly Theres A Point In Each Gear Where It Will Change Gear

BiKeBiKeBiKe
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[bikegirl]

I wouldn't try clutchless down at all, you may knacker the gearbox.

To change up start by holding your hand over the clutch and just pressing it in slightly with your 1st 2 fingers so it doesn't engage. This will ensure that you've got the revs in the usual state for a gear change - it's too easy to botch it when you're trying something new. Try it a few times like this to get used to the idea of not engaging the clutch, then try it without pressing.... then onto "look no hands". If you botch it then start again - you'll get used to it.

It's cool on the road and very useful on the track.

Susie
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[mr.z]

Down changes are tricky at the best of times, up cahnges on any bikes ive ridden have been realtively easy if your doing it right, but don't worry about it too much for now... and if your unsure of it don't.

Lets put it this way.

Clutch plates are £30/40,

Gear boxes on even a cg125 will set you back £500 a bike that you can buy for £600 or less... biger bikes are seriously more expensive, pritty much a gaurenteed write off i'd imagine.

I think its the selector forks wich take the majority of the mashing, even then its a long job and engine out and apart, even without parts your looking at hundreds in labour costs alone!


The gains are minor but it is cool when you do it right, like bliping on downchanges, matches the engine speed to the wheel speed and reduces the risk of spining out on a harsh downchange and is better for your engine, with a beastly 50bhp at my command its not really a likely problem neither would it be on a 125, but... it sounds cool
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[Visitor Q]

There are problems with it though.
Upchanging i just snap off the throttle and smack it up and in as normal (just gotta have a tad more pressure when u do it)
Down ARENT good and you risk very harsh engine braking, but if you want to, just let the revs drop lots, like on your nsr from like 9k to 4k and click it down, just dont do it atrevs you will get engine braking (and you get engine braking on 2t's too, enough to lock up.

Ps on light bikes (like my goose, and varius other bikes i do the odd bit of clutchless) if it doesnt go in you will find youve just kicked you bike basically, and it goes most unstable for a second, this i why i just leave it for when im lazy of the crappy gooses clutch has broke my hand.

Wouldnt advise it in overtaking till you get good with your bike, cock ups mid overtake cost lifes or at least pride
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[BiKeBiKeBiKe]

Ye I Agree Its Very Hard To Do It Changing Down Gears But Up Is Easy Enough

BiKeBiKeBiKe
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[Robby]

Why must you start every word with a capital letter? It makes your writing very difficult to read.