Car problem - "juddering" at speed? Any ideas?

[Groove]

Car in question is my ROVER 220 Turbo Coupe.

Problem is:

When you build up speed at anything over 50-60mph the car judders from what seems to be the engine bay. It will start a light judder but the more you build up past 50-60 with shake you almost out of your seat and feels like the engine will fall out! Its also quite loud from in the cabin.

There is also a clunk sound coming from underneath the car when you change gear in any other manner except ultra smooth. Happens in all gears. But the juddering i havnt noticed apart from 4th and 5th althought i havnt really tested the other gears.

Any ideas or tips on what to check to see if i can diagnose my self?

Thanks

Groove
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|| Past: 1991 Kawasaki ZXR 250 ~ 2003 Honda CBR 600 F Sport ~ 2004 Kawasaki ZX6R B1H 636 ~ 1999 Yamaha R1 ~ 1999 Kawasaki ZX6R J ~ 2004 Kawasaki ZX6R B1H 636 ~ 1998 Honda VTR1000F Firestorm ~ K1 GSXR 600 Track bike ~ K6 GSXR 1000 ~ 2006 Speed Triple 1050 || Current: 2005 R1 https://www.adrucore.co.uk

[AngelGrinder]

Sounds like unbabalanced or missaligned wheels.

Take your car down the a tyre fitter and get them to check the balance of them, won't be too expensive and is highly likely to be the problem.

If that doesn't sort it, get the wheel alignment checked.
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Currently Riding - 2002 Aprilia RSV1000 Mille

[Flip]

[Groove]

[KevTM]

engine/gearbox bushes?

[Stoo]

I suspect an engine mount/ bush though I had something similar in my old Pug which turned out to be a CV joint that was about to commit suicide.

[10 pence Short]

Engine/Gearbox mounts? You would see/feel the gearstick move more when accelerating in gear. You could also hold the top of the engine and shake it, it should be quite sturdy.

I think the Tomcats have a problem with drive shafts, could be a out of balance drive shaft or CV joint. Might make a clicking noise when pulling away on either steering lock.

Out of shape tyre, could be egg shaped tyres you would feel that through the steering even at low speed but would get worse and shake everything at higher speeds.
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I haven't had a cont all day, drinkstable.

[Groove]

[D O G]

I'm plumping for engine mounts too.

I broke one on my Seat I had a couple of years back, and every time you pulled away there would be a bump from the front end.

Open bonnet, run engine, rev engine (a little). If the engine moves signifcantly then likely to be a mount.

One would also expect that if it is an engine mount the juddering would occur at the same revs each time - so try repeating the revs in different gears. If juddering is rev constant then I reckon mount.

If it is speed constant (i.e. 50mph, any gear), then must be drivetrain.

[UnknownStuntm...]

https://www.rovertech.net/
One of the techie nerds on there will more than likely diagnose it whilst mid-doughnut.

[panrider_uk]

I had the same problem.

Car was smooth up to about 55 then juddery after that.

It was a poorly balanced wheel.

Mark
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Current bikes: Honda ST1100 Pan European. Moto Guzzi V85 TT Travel

[Groove]

Engine seems to be sturdy.

Dont get any feedback through steering wheel except when the whole car is shaking which is when it is really bad. Which makes me believe that its not the wheels.

No clunks over bumps or harsh accelerating or braking so would have thought that wipes out engine mount.

Doesnt do it out of gear or when off the throttle and you can hear it clunking somtimes when accelerating which seems to come from under the car.

That help any diagnosis?
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|| Past: 1991 Kawasaki ZXR 250 ~ 2003 Honda CBR 600 F Sport ~ 2004 Kawasaki ZX6R B1H 636 ~ 1999 Yamaha R1 ~ 1999 Kawasaki ZX6R J ~ 2004 Kawasaki ZX6R B1H 636 ~ 1998 Honda VTR1000F Firestorm ~ K1 GSXR 600 Track bike ~ K6 GSXR 1000 ~ 2006 Speed Triple 1050 || Current: 2005 R1 https://www.adrucore.co.uk

[prawny1]

Worn cv can give you juddering (won't nessererily click on full lock either), that could explain the knocking when changing gear agressivly too as the shaft will whip to take up the slack.

Get the car in the air and give everything a good hard tug to find out if you have any excess play any where.

Another thing to consider would be to check the shocks are not fubar, If you get a bad shock the wheel can start to bounce uncontrolably at speed, I have seen it loads of times going down the motor way, its pretty scary to watch , my brothers old bmw would shake the sunroof control panel off and make his sun visors drop when he went to fast because one of his back shocks had leaked, He finaly got me to change it when he got sick of putting his interior back together whenever he pulled over.

[njd27]

I had a thing like that on my VW which turned out to be that the bolt of one of the clamps on the exhaust was binding up against the chassis as the engine moved around under power.

[The View Askew]

Had same issue with my vectra, it was the wheels, and it started to be noticeable at 50-60mph exactly the same.


I had taken wheels from another car, so the wear was off for the vec, took a while to bed the tyres in to the vecs pattern then it stopped.


Has it had any change to the wheels in any way? are they alloys? If they are, when wheels are balanced, they are weighted, it is possible for one of these weights to come off.






If they are the standard wheels, and nothing's been changed, try rotating the spare wheel round all 4 to see if it suddenly goes away once a wheel is removed, and while you do so, look for a rectangular clean patch on the inside of the dish for an alloy, or clipped to the rim on a steely.
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"Do what you always did, get what you always got"

[Groove]

No change in the wheels apart from a nasty pot hole the missus hit when it started.

The juddering stops when you are just rolling along in neutral at speed or when you let off the accelorator could this still be the wheels? If so then i shall try to get them checked out this morning.

The donking noise from under the car is a bit suspicious though when lifting the clutch up?

Cant get under the car as its too low and dont have a jack

Seems to be getting worse
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|| Past: 1991 Kawasaki ZXR 250 ~ 2003 Honda CBR 600 F Sport ~ 2004 Kawasaki ZX6R B1H 636 ~ 1999 Yamaha R1 ~ 1999 Kawasaki ZX6R J ~ 2004 Kawasaki ZX6R B1H 636 ~ 1998 Honda VTR1000F Firestorm ~ K1 GSXR 600 Track bike ~ K6 GSXR 1000 ~ 2006 Speed Triple 1050 || Current: 2005 R1 https://www.adrucore.co.uk

[Pete.]

Check the wheelnuts! If they are ok jack the wheels up and wobble each one to check the bearings. Also if the driveshafts have weights on them like some cars do - check them.

If they are ok then try this:

Lift the bonnet and get someone in the driver seat. Handbrake on, 1st gear and carefully try to pull away whilst you watch the engine bay from outside. If you have a busted engine mount you'll either hear the donk or see the engine lurch markedly. Try not to get yourself run over doing this
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a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[Groove]

[D O G]

[Groove]

Ok, well had a look underneath and one drive shaft is bent. The other is on its way out so both will be getting changed. Simple?

No.

One drive shaft (the bent one) was changed "for a longer rover one as the orignal kept popping out after the gearbox got taken out".

How do i found out what this new one is? Apart from measure it and hope...

I could change it back to the original along with the hub thats also been changed and hope for the best, how risky could that be though? Dont want the argo of keep getting towed home!

The previous owner believed the "popping out" to be a common problem. If it is common, has anyone had it before and is there a particular drive shaft that gets put it its place?

Thanks for any help!
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|| Past: 1991 Kawasaki ZXR 250 ~ 2003 Honda CBR 600 F Sport ~ 2004 Kawasaki ZX6R B1H 636 ~ 1999 Yamaha R1 ~ 1999 Kawasaki ZX6R J ~ 2004 Kawasaki ZX6R B1H 636 ~ 1998 Honda VTR1000F Firestorm ~ K1 GSXR 600 Track bike ~ K6 GSXR 1000 ~ 2006 Speed Triple 1050 || Current: 2005 R1 https://www.adrucore.co.uk

[Groove]

No picture, its bent on the shaft itself and is visible when you turn the wheel.

Rubbers have split either end and will be drying up so im told by a mate (no oil there), could replace them i believe but then this one seems to not run quite true neither! I blame shite road suffaces around here! (its rather low, hit a little bump and you know about it!)

Yes, thats what we think, not been put back right. But then why go through all the bother of sourcing a different drive shaft and hub to accomadate said drive shaft if the problem is harder to fix than that!

The one that is nicely bent is the one that is the "longer" one.
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|| Past: 1991 Kawasaki ZXR 250 ~ 2003 Honda CBR 600 F Sport ~ 2004 Kawasaki ZX6R B1H 636 ~ 1999 Yamaha R1 ~ 1999 Kawasaki ZX6R J ~ 2004 Kawasaki ZX6R B1H 636 ~ 1998 Honda VTR1000F Firestorm ~ K1 GSXR 600 Track bike ~ K6 GSXR 1000 ~ 2006 Speed Triple 1050 || Current: 2005 R1 https://www.adrucore.co.uk

[chrisw]

This all sounds to me like someone has hit a curb hard at some point.