Bit of a scare with the TZR engine

[binge]

Before I rebuilt the engine (TZR125 2RK engine), It kept nipping up on me.
Now it was getting oil as I was using the oil pump. So I assumed it was down to the already tight bore / previously scored barrel, And a problem with the running.

However, This morning I stupidly let the oil tank under my seat run dry.
It had only just ran dry because there was still some oil in the pipe work running to the carb.

It bogged down, and felt like I'd started to apply the rear brake from around 30mph.

I clutched in, And rolled to a stop, Engine cut out.

I tried to start it again, It fired straight up, But when I realized what had happened, I turned it straight off. And pushed it to my local bike shop.

I then had to sit outside for half hour until they opened up. I bought a bottle of 2t Oil, And stuffed about 10ml in the half empty tank.

Shook it about a bit, And it started up on the kick.

I rode it to a petrol garage, Where I filled it up with petrol, And stuck another 50ml or so of oil in the tank.



Now I've ridden it 5 miles to work, And 6 or 7 miles home tonight (Since the "seizure")

And its been sound as a pound.

Although I've also filled up the oil tank, And bled the oil lines through.


It's running smokey, But as a 2 stroke should. And come to think about it, It wasn't really running very smokey before.


So I am wondering weather my oil pump could be faulty?


I've got the cable bias on the richest oil setting. But when you full throttle it, You can still pull the oil cable a little bit more, I'd say 1/4 turn left on the oil pump when at full throttle on the carb.

But you physically cant tighten the oil cable up any more.



Do oil pumps become "on their way out", And then eventually stop pumping?

Or do they work one minute, And the next not?


It's definitely working because I had the bike on idle, I pulled the oil pump cable tight and you could see the oil pumping through the line.


I'm a bit pissed off, And a bit confused at the same time.
The bike is running spot on other than that. Plug is burning slightly rich, But I've a feeling its still sucking in gearbox oil as that seems to be disappearing.



I dont really want to run pre-mix because it means lugging a bottle of 2t around with me. Unless anybody knows if they sell 2t in 100ml capsules.







Ben

[Kickstart]

Hi

You can get 2 squeak oil in tiny bottles. Neighbour has them for his hedge trimmer. One bottle for 5 litres of petrol. Not sure whether you would want to use it though.

Not sure what is making you think your pump is faulty, other than it currently being smokier when running on the oil pump and on premix.

All the best

Keith
____________________
Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[binge]

It just didnt seam to be very 2 stroke'y when it was running on the pump alone.

When a DT125 / RS125 passes my workshop. I can smell the 2t in the air, And I can see the smoke from the exhaust.


My pit bike doesn't do either of these.



And premixing on a 3L tank is not practical really.

[Blau Zedong]

Usually oil pumps either work or they don't. With the engine idling pull the pipe off the carb and hold the pump at full stroke (also hold the engine at a fast idle). Oil should pulse regularly from the end of the pipe. If there was an issue I would of thought it would of nipped up by now though.
____________________
18:54:48 Rob Fzs: jews don't give away stuff for free

18:54:59 Rob Fzs: unless its their clothes/ hair/ golden teeth

[Pete.]

If it wasn't working it wouldn't have emptied the oil tank. If you want it to smell really nice put castor oil in it
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[Blau Zedong]

[binge]

[Billing]

could try replacing the oil pump cable, might have just reached its limit of adjustment. or seeing as the pitbike is smaller the distance covered by the cables might be reduced, requiring shorter cables?
____________________
'84 TS50X, '91 TZR125, '89 CBR400RR, '91 VFR400R NC30, '98 R1
"Hey copernicus! Why don't you navigate yourself to the back of the line with your feet and stand there with your shit."
BCF Eastern members map here ---> g.co/maps/2tm8b PM me to be added to it!

[binge]

Good point. I'm not sure.

Should the oil pump be maxed out when you are on full throttle?

How do you set the oil pump up.

I know from the oil pump being in the "closed" position, To the fully open position. The travel in the cable physically isn't enough to make the oil pump go from fully closed to fully open.


The adjuster is at its limit, The pump is about 1/4 turned (open) when the throttle is closed.
When I open the throttle fully, The pump is still not fully open. It's got about another 1/4 turn to go. Maybe not as much as that, But its got movement left.


Is that normal?





Ben

[Pete.]

Not familiar with the TZR but every one I ever set had marks on the oil pump quadrant that must align at full throttle.
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[binge]

Shit, I didn't know that!

I'm worried now in case its the sort of pump that if opened past the "Max" mark, It actually slows down the flow rather than keeps increasing.


Better check that before I ride it next.


Cheers Geri.


Oh, By the way, I'm off up the Ebbsfleet roundabouts tomorrow, Bring the busa Turbo. I'll race ya.





Ben

[G]

For pre-mixing, an appropriate sized bottle with graduations in litres of petrol marked on it should make it pretty hassle-free when filling up - and not going to take up much more room than a 2 stroke tank of the same capacity.

Recently I've been running my zx9 on old 2 stroke to really confuse people .

[binge]

Looks like I am going to have to run pre-mix on this bike.

I didnt realise how small the oil tank is on the bike. I managed to nip it up again tonight.

PROPER Fucked off. Was riding home from Ebbsfleet, Came off the A2, Joined the Waynescott Bypass and it nipped up as I came off the slip road onto the Dual Carriage way.


So I then had to push it 6 maybe 7 miles to the petrol station by the Medway tunnel.

CUNT.


I've JUST got in now, I set off home from ebbsfleet just before midnight. SO its taken me nearly 2 hours to do the 10 mile ride.




Anyway, Got to the petrol garage, Bought a bottle of 2t, Filled up with petrol and slapped loads of oil in the tank. Shook it about, And got it going.

I let it idle until it'd used the petrol in the float bowl and started using the petrol which is now mixed with oil.

Meh, Maybe 2 strokes just arent for me, I have a brain like a sieve.




The oil tank has literally lasted 60 miles of riding (6 liters of petrol, 3 tanks).

The oil tank is an old rad header tank from the TZR, It's under the seat. The only place I can fit it.

I have to unbolt the seat to top it up.


And I must of just forgot, Again.



The bike was really boggy (I mean really boggy) when I started riding home from the petrol garage.
I hope this is down to having nearly 200ml of oil in the 3 litre petrol tank rather than loss of compression.


As soon as I felt the engine tighten up, I clutched in and hit the kill switch.



Proper pissed off.



So am I right in thinking. Carry a bottle of 2 stroke around with me.
I try and fill up every 20 miles anyway because the tank only holds 3 liters (From dry), And I cant really use the last 1/2 litre because of how high the carb sits.

If I was to put around 50ml of oil in the tank every time I fill up with my petrol (I put 2 litres in when I fill up).

This would be running at 40:1 ratio?
Is that too Lean?





Ben





Ben

[binge]

Okay seems the done amount on the TZR forum is 30:1


So that would be 66ml to 2L of petrol.

100ml to a full tank (3L).







Ben

[serlant]

My understanding is that going from the oil pump to premix will lean the mixture out a little as oil is now taking the place of some of the petrol being sucked in through the main jet, i doubt it atomises aswell either, which might be why it was boggy, if it leans it out too much it could cause damage(as spitfire 123 found out), STOP forgetting.

[Kickstart]

Hi

Got an early TZR125 manual here. The oil pump adjustment is done with a basically closed throttle. Says to take up the slack in the throttle and then check the marks align on the oil pump.

There are also instructions for adjusting the stroke of the pump.

All the best

Keith
____________________
Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[G]

Could you not fit a bigger tank and get a sensor from another bike linked up to a flashing LED or something?
I've got one from a RS250 with sensor sitting in my room I think, but suspect that'd be a bit too big for you.

[Blau Zedong]

If you are going down the premix route (which I wouldn't, cause premix blows), then remember to check jetting and also to remove the oil pump (you don't HAVE to take the drive gubbins out of the case - the drive worm will happily sit there spinning in open air and the oil seal will keep the gearbox oil inside the gearbox).
____________________
18:54:48 Rob Fzs: jews don't give away stuff for free

18:54:59 Rob Fzs: unless its their clothes/ hair/ golden teeth

[Pete.]

Fit a bigger reservoir and keep the pump. Might as well if you are going to use up your storage space carrying a bottle. Get in the habit of checking the oil each time you lube the chain.
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[binge]

I was planning on just carrying oil in a rucksack.

I've been looking at oil tanks on ebay, But nothing seems to be small enough or the right shape.

I've got to fit it under the seat really as there is nowhere else on the bike. And that are under the seat is an odd shape.

It wouldn't be so bad but I have to unbolt the seat to top it up too.
So thats another tool to carry around.

And then I've got to question the threads in the frame, How many times can a bolt be put in and out of a hole before it wears out.



I've already got a breather on my oil pump, I drilled a small hole in it, Forced some silicone hose through the hole, And then ran that hose up out of the plastics and poked it out behind the seat.

No oil gets up this pipe obviously, It's just to stop the thing pressurizing when the oil is used.

I suppose I could run a similar pipe but bigger bore, Up to the front of the bike under all the plastics. And have the filler point somewhere accessable.

Then just squirt the oil in to there, Plus the extra foot or so of pipe work would double up as extra oil capacity.





GOnna go have a butchers at the bike now, Hopefully I've not F*cked the bore right up.





Ben

[binge]

Just found an air box which would probably fit if I shortened the snorkel to it.

Would this be big enough?


https://i8.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/e1/5e/f4b7_1_sbl.JPG

LENGTH 32.5CM

BOX LENGTH 15.5CM

BOX HIGHT 13CM

BOX DEPTH 10CM






Ben

[Kickstart]

Hi

Looking at your bike, do you ever fully compress the back wheel so it is close to touching the mudguard? If not could you mount a tank under there. Or even have the tank forming part of the rear mudguard (almost how the RS125 tank mounts).

If you are using up a full tank of 2 squeak oil in 6 litres of petrol, even at 30:1 that makes your oil tank only 200cc. That is tiny.

All the best

Keith
____________________
Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[binge]

The oil tank looks quite big, But its tapered. It goes down to a cone shape where the pipe connects to the bottom.

So one minute it looks full. And before you know it, It's empty.

Pain in the arse really.


The rear mudguard has the reg plate mounted just below it, And a tail light under there too.

Probably not a great deal of room to put the tank there.


My only other option is up front above the steering damper. But then its gets tight with the steering.





Ben

[Pete.]

Doesn't have to be mounted on the bike. You could use an upside-down colostomy-bag full of oil worn in a shoulder-holster that no-one wants sinced they banned handguns
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[binge]

LOL!

Funny you should say that. We were having a right fucking laugh up at Ebbsfleet last night.

We were saying how I need to fill my pit up every 20 miles because of the small tank.
One of the blokes came out with:


You could get one of those water back packs, And put the "Straw" Pipe into the breather on the tank cap.
Wear the bag under your arm, And when you are low on fuel, start flapping like a chicken.


Was actually PMSL!






Ben