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F*ck you, the government.

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L-Jam
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PostPosted: 20:48 - 30 Sep 2009    Post subject: F*ck you, the government. Reply with quote

I just tried to tax my bike, as I had actually forgotten about it until i checked today, and because it has been two months since expiry, the website said that if I choose to continue and tax my bike someone may be in contact with me about the gap of 2 months - It's an offence. Now obviously, I'll be saying I have not rode the bike without tax, but what can I do.

Please dont tell me off, either, my Dad went quite nuts already.

I dont really want to tax it if as soon as I do, the government are going to come and bumfuck me with a fine or something.
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lilredmachine
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PostPosted: 20:52 - 30 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately, there is no grey area you can exploit. If you fail to inform the DVLA that you have SORN'd a bike then it must be taxed. A road registered bike can only ever be taxed, sorned or scrapped in the governments eyes.

You'll most likely get a fine. We all make mistakes. Not saying I agree with the system, just stating the facts.
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garyd
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PostPosted: 20:53 - 30 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is what the SORN arrangment is for ..............catching people like you who forgot to tax the vehicle,
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L-Jam
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PostPosted: 20:55 - 30 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's so fuck*ing annoying though! I legitimately forgot, and now the government is going to take a load of money off me for no reason, it's hard enough being a student as it is.
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lilredmachine
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PostPosted: 21:10 - 30 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonesy boy wrote:
It's so fuck*ing annoying though! I legitimately forgot, and now the government is going to take a load of money off me for no reason, it's hard enough being a student as it is.


Well, the reason is you didn't pay your road tax. It's pretty simple.

The classic line is ignorance is no defence.
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Mudskipper
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PostPosted: 21:15 - 30 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had the 'website says someone may be contacting me about the gap in taxation' thing before when taxing bikes I've bought, never had any further contact.

It might be different where there hasn't been a change of owner though.

If it were me, I'd wait till I got a letter with a bold £ on it before I got my knickers in a twist.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 21:28 - 30 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

SORN is a pain and a waste of time. Fair chance you will get hit for a penalty. They charge you £80 (£40 if you pay up early) for not telling them that you aren't using it on the road. Think if it goes to court properly then there is a £1000 fine.

Wonder if you could take the £80 penalty to court and argue that as it is a civil thing they can only force you to pay what they have lost (ie, £0 as you could have declared SORN) Laughing .

All the best

Keith
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Mystery
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PostPosted: 21:35 - 30 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

when my bike run out of tax and i retaxxed it i got a 40 fine in the post
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T0MMY
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PostPosted: 08:01 - 01 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

You really have no choice but to tax it (or sorn it). Saying you don't want to in case they bumfuck you is ridiculous, leave it any longer and it'll just get worse (they won't use lube for example). Just get it taxed and wait to see if you get a fine, nothing else you can do, no point even worrying about it.
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Barry_M2
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PostPosted: 08:58 - 01 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a gap of two years on a car I had a few years ago. Never heard a peep from them.
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Bat
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PostPosted: 09:16 - 01 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I managed to find the only helpful and friendly post office counter clerk when taxing my latest bike. Guy I bought from hadn't SORN'd it. She said providing it was the first time, he'd probably only get stung for the tax payable during the gap.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 09:19 - 01 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barry_MC21 wrote:
I had a gap of two years on a car I had a few years ago. Never heard a peep from them.


I've had gaps on plenty of bikes and its never been an issue. They must pick out randoms to prosecute.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 09:35 - 01 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

The act of taxing it on the computer has no effect on wether or not they send out a demand for money.

They will either send one or not, you'd have got it just the same regardless. The thing on the website is just a macro that pops you to that message.

kickstart wrote:
Wonder if you could take the £80 penalty to court and argue that as it is a civil thing they can only force you to pay what they have lost (ie, £0 as you could have declared SORN)


The £40 then £80 thing is interesting. You can be fined up to £2000 for failure to declare SORN, but this fine can only be imposed by a court (ie they have to take you to court for failure to declare SORN).

They don't do this. They send out a demand for £40 then £80. They are always careful to word this as an "out of court settlement" as opposed to a fine or a penalty charge.

In the initial couple of letters they also add an amount for "arrears of tax". They drop this if things go further, presumably because you only legally have to tax your vehicle if it's being used on the road. If it was off the road (SORNed or not), you don't have to pay tax.

They then set about trying to collect this "out of court settlement" via one of several different debt collection agencies with the usual meaningless but threatning sounding bullshit letters they tend to send out. In my personal experience, they usually give up after a time of being totally ignored.

I am fully prepared to take this to court. I have failed to pay no less than six SORN fines, ignored all correspondance and have had no repercussions.

If it goes to court, they take up the case as a debt at the small claims court. My main line of attck will be that I did not agree to settle out of court, therefore how can I owe them an out of court settlement. The usual case being if you do not agree to settle out of court, you get taken to court.

Worst case is that I am ordered to pay the £80. It doesn't affect your credit history if you pay a CCJ right away. They can't even take me to court for the original offence because by this point, you're about 12 months down the line, well past the statute of limitations for civil offences.
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njd27
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PostPosted: 09:41 - 01 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's best in my experience to own up as soon as possible. Phone them up, explain your mistake, apologise, offer to pay the back tax. They are able to waive the fine in this instance. The system that generates SORN fines lags behind the main database so it may not have noticed the gap yet.
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Mudskipper
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PostPosted: 10:03 - 01 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

njd27 wrote:
It's best in my experience to own up as soon as possible. Phone them up, explain your mistake, apologise, offer to pay the back tax. They are able to waive the fine in this instance. The system that generates SORN fines lags behind the main database so it may not have noticed the gap yet.


Laughing

Please say you're being sarcastic.
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LordShaftesbu...
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PostPosted: 10:10 - 01 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say get the new tax sorted immediately then wait and see. No point owning up if they're probably going to overlook it, is there? Soon as you mention it you can be sure they'll be onto you though.
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L-Jam
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PostPosted: 10:51 - 01 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the advice guys, I get paid in two weeks so I'll pay online soon as I get paid. I could tax it now if I wanted, but I don't have the money to pay the fine, and assuming Keith is correct, I would prefer to pay the £40 fine. Or do you really think I should just ignore it?
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LordShaftesbu...
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PostPosted: 10:53 - 01 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonesy boy wrote:
Thanks for the advice guys, I get paid in two weeks so I'll pay online soon as I get paid. I could tax it now if I wanted, but I don't have the money to pay the fine, and assuming Keith is correct, I would prefer to pay the £40 fine. Or do you really think I should just ignore it?


What? Have you actually received the demand for the fine? If not then ignore it. But I would tax it now.
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L-Jam
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PostPosted: 11:01 - 01 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't received the fine, because I haven't taxed my bike yet, because by taxxing my bike it will flag up on the system that I am due A fine, and I wanted to see what you crackers thought first Smile
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 11:02 - 01 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tax it now. You may or may not receive further correspondance on the matter.

The longer you leave it, the more likely you are to recieve a demand for money.
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SimonB
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PostPosted: 11:09 - 01 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I received a letter about failure to declare sorn it was £80. I was in the process of stripping the bike to bits during a 4 month period. I wrote back and explained the situation. They sent another letter back stating that as a gesture of goodwill they would drop the fine.

If I was you I would just wait and see if you receive a letter.
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LordShaftesbu...
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PostPosted: 11:11 - 01 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just cos the system SAYS it's being flagged doesn't mean it is. You're assuming the people who run it are competent.
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arry
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PostPosted: 11:21 - 01 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonesy boy wrote:
It's so fuck*ing annoying though! I legitimately forgot.


Didn't get the reminder, then?
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LordShaftesbu...
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PostPosted: 11:23 - 01 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess chat bots can't read ...
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