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Flipsta
Borekit Bruiser



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PostPosted: 18:40 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reflective tape Reply with quote

Does anyone know why the police get pissy about reflective tape on the rims or any kinds of stickers?

What law ommits bikes or any other vehicle from using reflective tape?

My friend had a line running through the front of his moped in blue in reflective tape- the police got really pissy about it - I don't really understand why, anyone know?
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G
The Voice of Reason



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PostPosted: 19:00 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Re: Reflective tape Reply with quote

They don't, not in my experience. Had no trouble when I got stopped by an arsey cop looking for things to moan about.

But then my reflective tape wouldn't look like a flashing blue light (if on the rims), as I've got it in white, amber and red.
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Flipsta
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PostPosted: 19:08 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Re: Reflective tape Reply with quote

G wrote:
They don't, not in my experience. Had no trouble when I got stopped by an arsey cop looking for things to moan about.

But then my reflective tape wouldn't look like a flashing blue light (if on the rims), as I've got it in white, amber and red.


I'd like to put either Blue or White rim tape... But I don't want to spill out cash if i'm going to be forced to remove it within a few days after I apply the stuff.
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G
The Voice of Reason



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PostPosted: 19:24 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Re: Reflective tape Reply with quote

Good, you'll save your self a fashion faux pas Wink.

I suspect the way the rest of the 'ped and it's rider looks/acts may have some bearing on it too.
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Flipsta
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PostPosted: 19:31 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haha the guy is actually the least likely to be a bother. Same with me, I barely ever speed too lol.
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Mystery
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PostPosted: 19:32 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

i've got the blue reflective stuff on mine and never had a problem with it
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Flipsta
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PostPosted: 19:49 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

blindweezy wrote:
i've got the blue reflective stuff on mine and never had a problem with it


Have you got a picture mate?
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 19:50 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Highway code, Rule 87:
Quote:
Riding in the dark. Wear reflective clothing or strips to improve your visibility in the dark. These reflect light from the headlamps of other vehicles, making you visible from a longer distance.


If the police were to get pissy about you fitting reflective strips, just agree with them then carry on, I con't think of anything that would make it illegal (they can hardly say your moped is trying to impersonate a police vehicle). They are just trying to make themselves feel important by intimidating a 16 year old because they know anyone else would laugh at them.

If they ever got as far as putting something on paper, you could then take it along to the police station and ask the duty sergeant to explain exactly what regulation you've contravened. If that gets you nowhere, give the sun newspaper a bell, they might be having a quiet day and they love shit like that.
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Pussy Magnet
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PostPosted: 20:12 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

haha the sun newspaper Laughing also ive got white and blue rim tape on mine never been pulled over but i have a mate who has been pulled over for it and they made him take it off, but the day after he went to the police station and complained.
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Flipsta
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PostPosted: 20:36 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
Highway code, Rule 87:
Quote:
Riding in the dark. Wear reflective clothing or strips to improve your visibility in the dark. These reflect light from the headlamps of other vehicles, making you visible from a longer distance.


If the police were to get pissy about you fitting reflective strips, just agree with them then carry on, I con't think of anything that would make it illegal (they can hardly say your moped is trying to impersonate a police vehicle). They are just trying to make themselves feel important by intimidating a 16 year old because they know anyone else would laugh at them.

If they ever got as far as putting something on paper, you could then take it along to the police station and ask the duty sergeant to explain exactly what regulation you've contravened. If that gets you nowhere, give the sun newspaper a bell, they might be having a quiet day and they love shit like that.


hahahaha.

Thing is ive got an MX bike, the rims are big like 17 and 22 or something (Cant remember exactly...) so i doubt its anything like a police or emergency vehicle. I'm going to do my research into the highway code actually, cheers people!

p.s - i'm 17 actually not 16 Razz haha
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Nixon
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PostPosted: 21:25 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Re: Reflective tape Reply with quote

Flipsta wrote:
Does anyone know why the police get pissy about reflective tape on the rims or any kinds of stickers?

What law ommits bikes or any other vehicle from using reflective tape?

My friend had a line running through the front of his moped in blue in reflective tape- the police got really pissy about it - I don't really understand why, anyone know?



Its part of the Road Traffic Act

Basically it refers to the use of lighting and warning devices, all road users must display white front, orange sides, red to rear ect but there are also restricted lighting such as blue flashing lights, red flashing lights, green flashing lights ect. Some colours of reflective material are included in this, not just an omitted light source.

Under the road traffic act, reflective blue material is specifically restricted purely for police use. That is why they will be pissy, because you are committing the same offence as you would do if you had a blue flashing police light fitted.
in short there thinking your impersonating a police officer and to the letter of the law there right - just not using much common sence or rational judgement Rolling Eyes as per usual lol

Naturally the road traffic act is a huge document and it will take me a while to find the clause but when i do i will put it up for you Thumbs Up
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G
The Voice of Reason



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PostPosted: 21:46 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Re: Reflective tape Reply with quote

Be interesting if you could find it.
People with blue lights or things that look like blue lights annoy me as I find it means you get used to seeing 'blue' in your mirrors and can ignore it when it really is!

However, the last time the issue came up, I believe I apologised as when some rules were produced, they showed my beliefs to be wrong Sad.

Oh and Flipsta, if you mean your DT, a) not, it's not a motocross bike, b) it has tyres in 21 front and 18 rear. Just the same as some police dirt bikes, such as the DRZ400. However, not really an issue at night when all you can see is a blue light in your mirrors or similar.
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truslack
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PostPosted: 21:59 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I read that reflective blue is illegal, as someone was trying to sticker up a Pan Euro in refelective yellow and blue chequer, but it's only legal if the blue stickers aren't reflective.
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Mystery
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PostPosted: 22:06 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flipsta wrote:
blindweezy wrote:
i've got the blue reflective stuff on mine and never had a problem with it


Have you got a picture mate?


not just now but i'll get you one 2mrrow Thumbs Up Karma
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Nixon
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PostPosted: 22:11 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here we go from the full The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989

Part 7, Schedule 21 (relating to regulation 18+19) = "REQUIREMENTS RELATING TO OBLIGATORY FRONT RETROREFLECTORS AND TO OPTIONAL FRONT RETRO REFLECTORS"


so in answer to your question:
Quote:
why the police get pissy about reflective tape


Under Schedule 12, point 7 of The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 any retroreflective marker displayed to the front of a vehicle must be of one single solid colour stated as "white"

any deviation from this is therefore illegal unless valid exemptions exist. (Still working on finding these exact exemtion clauses) Thumbs Up


Last edited by Nixon on 22:15 - 26 Oct 2009; edited 1 time in total
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Flipsta
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PostPosted: 22:13 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thing is. I live in Gibraltar, we're British and follow practically all British law. So the UK highway code is identical to ours in most ways.

There are no police on dirt bikes here, just on those big honda STs.
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Flipsta
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PostPosted: 22:15 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

nixon wrote:
Here we go from the full The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989

Part 7, Schedule 21 (relating to regulation 18+19) = "REQUIREMENTS RELATING TO OBLIGATORY FRONT RETROREFLECTORS AND TO OPTIONAL FRONT RETRO REFLECTORS"


so in answer to your question:

Under Schedule 12, point 7 of The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 any retroreflective marker displayed to the front of a vehicle must be of one single solid colour stated as "white"

any deviation from this is therefore illegal unless valid exemptions exist. Thumbs Up


Therefore I can apply white tape to the front of my bike, sounds good.
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Nixon
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PostPosted: 22:17 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

yep, white front, orange to side, red to rear same as any normal lights

or

if you really want blue just make sure its not retroreflective Wink
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Nixon
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PostPosted: 22:39 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Re: Reflective tape Reply with quote

G wrote:
Be interesting if you could find it.
People with blue lights or things that look like blue lights annoy me as I find it means you get used to seeing 'blue' in your mirrors and can ignore it when it really is!

However, the last time the issue came up, I believe I apologised as when some rules were produced, they showed my beliefs to be wrong Sad.

Oh and Flipsta, if you mean your DT, a) not, it's not a motocross bike, b) it has tyres in 21 front and 18 rear. Just the same as some police dirt bikes, such as the DRZ400. However, not really an issue at night when all you can see is a blue light in your mirrors or similar.


So far i have found Section 16 from the The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 part II

Quote:
Restrictions on fitting blue warning beacons, special warning lamps and similar devices

16. No vehicle, other than an emergency vehicle, shall be fitted with-

(a) a blue warning beacon or special warning lamp, or

(b) a device which resembles a blue warning beacon or a special warning lamp, whether the same is in working order or not.


I suppose it would be left open to interpretation, as schedule 21 only applies to retro reflective material.
there may be a definitave answer in there somewhere but its quite heavy reading for this time of night lol


Last edited by Nixon on 22:43 - 26 Oct 2009; edited 1 time in total
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map
Mr Calendar



Joined: 14 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: 22:39 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

nixon wrote:
Here we go from the full The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989

Part 7, Schedule 21 (relating to regulation 18+19) = "REQUIREMENTS RELATING TO OBLIGATORY FRONT RETROREFLECTORS AND TO OPTIONAL FRONT RETRO REFLECTORS"


so in answer to your question:
Quote:
why the police get pissy about reflective tape


Under Schedule 12, point 7 of The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 any retroreflective marker displayed to the front of a vehicle must be of one single solid colour stated as "white"

any deviation from this is therefore illegal unless valid exemptions exist. (Still working on finding these exact exemtion clauses) Thumbs Up


Taken from a previous thread on this sort of topic...
Taken from the ST1100 forum, where they know a thing or 2 about this sort of thing. Written in 2005
Smarthound wrote:
The requirements concerning the lighting devices and retro-reflective material of all vehicles used on the public
road are contained in The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 (RVLR)...

However, this is being revised and a new European regulation (EC104) is making the following changes to the
use of retro-reflective material on some vehicles.

Retro-reflective material is material that reflects light back to its source. It does not include material that
reflects an image of a lamp (for example a piece of chrome or a mirror), or material that is not reflective but has
other properties, for example fluorescent material which glows under sunlight but does not reflect light at night.

Placement of retro-reflective material on vehicles is regulated under the RVLR. The colour of the material is
regulated whereas the shape, size and grade is generally not specified.

Still awake?

Colour: Where retro-reflective material is fitted to the vehicle for conspicuity purposes, it is treated as an
"optional retro-reflector" under RVLR. The permitted colour depends on whether the material is mounted on
the front, side or rear of a vehicle:

Rear: only red is allowed. (limited exceptions to this e.g. yellow number plates)
Side: only amber (which is generally taken as including yellow)
Front: any colour is permitted except red but white is recommended.

For the side of the vehicle only, there is a caveat to the above rule. If the side of the vehicle is fitted with
retro-reflective material which is not for conspicuity purposes but is for advertising purposes, for example
a company logo, there is a variation from the above rules in that any colour is permitted. However if the retro-
reflective material is very high specification, even if it is in the shape of a logo it may still be deemed to be
mounted on the vehicle for conspicuity purposes and then it will have to be amber.

Shape and size: "Battenburg" (large blocks of colour) livery is reserved for emergency vehicles and some
other special vehicles, as explained below. It should not be mounted on any other vehicles. Other than this,
there are no restrictions on shape or size.

Emergency Vehicles: Emergency vehicles (police, county & armed services fire and NHS ambulance services)
and certain other Government vehicles have special exemptions from the colours specified above and so can
use other colours such as blue to the side. When taking advantage of this exemption the Battenburg pattern
on the side of the vehicles should be used.

The special exemptions from the RVLR are called Special Orders and they are issued by VTS6, and signed on
behalf of the Secretary of State for Transport. Other users, including privately-run fire services or ambulances,
are not permitted these colours or the battenburg pattern and must conform to RVLR as described previously.

Enquiries should be directed to VTS6 to discover if a particular organisation or body is in possession of a Special
Order. Requests from organisations who feel they have a justifiable need for special colours or livery should also
be addressed to VTS6.

So in conclusion... strictly speaking, Battenburg appears to be illegal unless you're subject to a Special Order
from the DoT!

It all looks pretty gloomy. But...

A phone call to the DoT yielded the information that EC104 only applies to the size and grade of tape used,
i.e for lorries etc, and that Battenburg on a bike is in fact ok as long as the following is done: No reflective blue
to the side! That's it. So you could have Battenburg in non-reflective blue and reflective yellow, and it would
be perfectly legal.

If you're stopped by the police they are unlikely to know exactly what the law is on retro-reflectives, but they
will start from a standpoint of "if it looks like a police vehicle it's illegal". So choose your livery wisely!


A firm that can provide graphic kits is Bluelite Graphics. I believe the kit for the ST1100 is BAT172.

So some legal ones would be...
https://www.my-mc.com/messages/31335/50884.jpg
https://www.my-mc.com/messages/31335/68795.jpg
https://www.my-mc.com/messages/31335/46183.jpg


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Nixon
Brolly Dolly



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PostPosted: 23:13 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry map i don't get your point ....

everything I have said is referenced to the law, so you can go ahead and check it for yourself instead of just believing someone who may have interprated it wrong.

Just because he rides a st1100 does not make him a credible source.

there are some parts of that that have been "dumbed down" to a point where i really do question this guys credibility such as:
Quote:
NHS ambulance services
an ambulance is an ambulance whether it is NHS, PAS or VAS it operates as a role of an ambulance regardless of the operator, and as such is seen in the eyes of the law an ambulance.
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Flipsta
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PostPosted: 23:18 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.gibraltarlaws.gov.gi/articles/1958.04.01.pdf

Page 46, Section 78-79.

Can anyone have a look at that and translate into english if I am able to use my own reflectors?
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Flipsta
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PostPosted: 23:28 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

So basically if I keep the front of the bike with some small white reflective stuff, It should be cool.

cool.
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Nixon
Brolly Dolly



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PostPosted: 23:36 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flipsta wrote:
https://www.gibraltarlaws.gov.gi/articles/1958.04.01.pdf

Page 46, Section 78-79.

Can anyone have a look at that and translate into english if I am able to use my own reflectors?


section 77 to 79 refer only to reflectors that are characterised by shining white light in and reflecting red light back out.

So those sections only apply to reflecting back the colour red.
I believe this is in reference to the button type of reflector but would also apply to red retroreflective material. so if it shines back out red and is of the correct stated size, in the correct stated position its fine Thumbs Up

I didn't look deep enough for details regarding other colours or materials though under the gibraltar law though.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 00:10 - 27 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flipsta wrote:
Does anyone know why the police get pissy about reflective tape on the rims or any kinds of stickers?

What law ommits bikes or any other vehicle from using reflective tape?

My friend had a line running through the front of his moped in blue in reflective tape- the police got really pissy about it - I don't really understand why, anyone know?


Blue reflective tape = blue light. Good law IMO, seeing blue reflectives on everything would reduce their effectiveness, same with blue lights.
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