My 2nd spill, bad technique vs bad tyres in the wet?

[moreati]

Coming home tonight I came of my scooter, for the second time.

On both occasions I was braking from approx 15 mph with the front brake, and the road was wet. The first time I believe I had turned slightly into a left hand corner, so I placed the blame squarely on my technique. Tonight I was travelling more or less straight, maintaining my position in a queue of traffic. The front wheel (I believe) locked, when I applied the brake. There was no build up, one moment I was riding the next I was on the ground. I'd gone head first over the handle bar and landed on my front, with the rear of the scooter lying on my foot.

I'm fine, apart from a few aches, mainly thanks to the protective gear (boots and gloves in particular). The scooter is running, it has a few scratches a broken brake lever, a broken indicator cover, and a broken body panel.

The first time this happened, I put it entirely down to my poor technique (front braking whilst turning). Now I'm wondering how much was down to my technique, and how much to the performance of the front tyre in the wet.

How much difference is there between the standard tyres on a Chinese scooter vs (arguments sake) Peugeot scooter tyres vs after market tyres. Might better tyres have made a difference, or do I simply need instruction/practise in wet weather riding?

[Kickstart]

Hi

Difficult to say. Technique could be part of the problem, but cheap and nasty tyres can let go (especially in the wet) with very little provocation.

Also worth checking tyre pressures, etc.

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[MattEMulsion]

Either which way in the wet you really ought to be using the rear brake a little more rather than letting the front brake do all of the work.
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Yamaha YZF-R6

[ClaireBear]

As MattEMulsion said you should really be using the back brake as well.

The way I was taught was if you are going at slow speeds the back brake should be used more. If you dont think the back brake is enough and your having to wack the brake on quickly, its probably because your going too fast.

More front brake needs to be applied- as when the bike brakes the weight and momentum goes towards the front end- but I use the back brake too.

Its difficult to say about tyres- all depends on the quality of them. I would certainly ask a garage their view, I would imagine the more expensive the better quality but you never know.

Glad to hear your ok though

[Banned]

My 2nd spill, bad technique vs bad tyres in the wet?

Your title is made of Win IMO ... ! ...

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[supZ]

[metalangel]

Remember what the Forza 2 loading screen says - any grip used to brake isn't being used to stick to the road. In the wet I aim to be at the right speed before I start turning.
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Previous: 2002 Honda CB500 (sold), 2007 Suzuki SV650SK6 (crashed), 2005 Yamaha FZ6 Fazer (sold). Currently bikeless
"A faired bike will get you 10x more clunge than a unfaired one." -Marlboro Matt

[baldy]

If the front wheel locked and slid, how did you end up going over the handle bars with bald tyres in the wet?

If the tyres are bald or shit, replace them. They are only £20 each.
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One day i will rule the world, just not today.

[Feasty]

I think you're using your front brake way too much, and I don't quite understand why you do this -

[Kickstart]

[moreati]

[pup]

[supZ]

front should be your main brake. 80% front 20% rear on the road.

in racing the rear is barely used at all. my racer m8 doesnt use his at all and in fact one of rossi's comments about braking was he maybe uses the rear 5% of the time. quote 'i just use it because its there' unquote.

when braking i, as mentioned above, apply pressure to the front, then squeeze and in a smooth motion i apply the back as well applying more force to the front if i need it. again, this is mainly just because its there. when i first started riding i didnt use the back brake at all except when stationary. if trail braking into a corner i tend to let off the front and use the back more to control my speed, but only lightly.

in my experience the rear is more for fine control than actually slowing you/stopping you.

you'd be surprised how much grip your front tyre has and how hard you can brake, just as long as its done smoothly.

the problems start when you panic brake or grab a handful. panicing will upset the bikes balance, load up the suspension and its momentum will overload the tyres. similarly grabbing a handful is likely to lock the wheel and thats the last thing you want to happen. a controllable wheel is a rolling wheel.
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CBR954RR - Daily toy
CBR600RR - Trackbike

[moreati]

Well, it's been getting wetter, but I've been paying close attention to my technique and I believe I'm improving. Either way I've decided to upgrade the tyres. Peace of mind and is worth it.

Thanks all for your advice, Alex

[pup]

[moreati]

To round off this thread. I had the tyres replaced a couple of weeks ago. The new ones (Bridgestone B01 iirc) are much better in the wet, and it only cost £60 for the lot.

Apparently I had two rear tyres originally.

[calyx]

By the way; if you are going slower than running pace, don't use front brake, make sure you cover the rear brake. Or get a combined brake scooter and forget the front brake
At CBT course don't they tell people to cover the rear brake at slow speeds? Or was that an advanced training?
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Boris - London

[el_oso]

just a quick tip

if you looked down at your instruments at the wrong time an looked up again to see danger you are either looking at your instruments way to long or not leaving a big enough gap.
the highway code book says 2 seconds in the dry and 4 in the wet.

I know that i tend to look at my instruments way to long sometimes but i do make sure that i have a massive distance to the car in front in the wet.

(BTW i hate wet riding. i ride like a fairy in the wet)
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Duke 390
Previous: '05 XR125L | '96 XJ600S Diversion |'05 Suzuki GSXR1000 | '05 Honda CBR125-R | '97 YZF 600R Thundercat | '11 Honda CBR250
Car: Jeep Wrangler 4.0L

[Cigaro]

If your tyres were at only 20psi, I'd say that was your problem.

No bike will handle properly with tyres that low.

[c-m]

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