Is Hydrogen fuel cell tecnology the future?

[Poseidon]

I was having a debate with a collegue and he was waffling on about how hydrogen is the fuel of tomorrow and we'll all be driving cars powered by fuel cells. I told him it was a load of bollocks as there is far too much money in the petrochem industry. His main arguments are:

It's 100% clean

I said that the electricity used for electrolysing sea water will probably be from fossil fuels. That is until 100% renewable energy is being produced (can't see it myself). Also modern injection systems and better cats are getting petrol/diesel emissions close to the 0% pollutants mark

Car will still look and drive like normal cars

Fair point, but you've taken an already potential hazard of driving a vehicle carrying highly inflammable liquid and made it worse as you would be driving a vehicle with highly explosive gas on board. Also, what about motorbikes, what about haulage??? are they going over to fuel cells?

It'll save the planet so governments will support it

!?! WTF... since when do governments care about doing good deeds? I pointed out that there is far too much money invested in internal conbustion engine manufacture/service/repair and fuel production/distribution. No-one will allow a clean burning engine that has no moving parts (therefore lower service costs) to enter the roads in large numbers! I can't see it ever happening in our lifetimes. The fact that governements will wage phoney wars on each other for oil says that they don't give a monkeys about going green!

My theory is that hyper-efficiency is the way forward. It's still internal combution engines, still burns liquid fuel so all the relevant service/maintanence/fuel distribution/duty will still be there, which will keep all the big multinationals (who, lets face it, are actually the ones running countries nowadays) happy. Engines capable of 150+mpg are on the horizon. Even if fossil fuels run dry, there's still bio-fuels, which are also getting a lot of investment. Hydrogen fuel cells are just too radical and pose too much of a threat to too many industries. It's a nice idea, but come on, we'd be starting from scratch again with the idea of propulsion, we've got a 150year head start on internal combustion engines!

I'm not saying that one is better than the other, I'm just being realistic about what the future will hold. So when you cast your vote, you are not voting for which you think is the better concept, you're voting for which one you think will most likely be around in 40years time!
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1977 Honda CG125
2002 Ducati Monster S4 (currently restoring)

[LeeR]

As soon as they invent a cost effective material, that hydrogen atoms don't "evaporate" through we're on to a winner.

Of course the energy required to extract and process the hydrogen in the first place has to come from somewhere...

Having said that it'll have to happen, otherwise it's back to the horse or walking.
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[Itchy]

I think it will be fuel cells tbh, and the fuel cells will be designed to fail within X number of years.

In that the ICE engine is somewhat inefficient no matter how we improve it it can be no more than 30-40% While fuel cells 60%+ (I read these from somewhere do not quote me)


However the normal players will still be in operation, in that I think either hydrogen will be electrolysed via nuclear or solar power using solar thermal and heliostats in the deserts, guess who has an awful lot of desert? , North Africa and the current Arab oil states.

Such a situation would mean that we can use pretty much the same infrastructure as we do now with some modifications hence electrolysation occurs in Saudi, is stuck on a modified LPG tanker and pumped to a refinery in the UK which is converted less for cracking by more for storage which is then ferried to petrol stations (the infrastructure of already exists).

However because this is the simple cost effective option the government most definately will NOT opt for this option and the fact that you can make your own hydrogen means you can quite effectively dodge any taxes put onto the hydrogen from fuel stations (note this might be a reason why the UK government wants to install 'smart' meters into everybody's homes by 2020).

Means they will combine this with a gallileo based tracking system, thats if by 2020 you can afford to drive.
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[Poseidon]

[Itchy]

[lostboy]

actually your mate could be right the car companies do tend to be looking at cars powered this way and although the investment in this technology is not at present at the same level as developing new petrol engines it is seen as a serious alternative and therefore although the investment at present is not serious a few companies have developed cars with hydrogen fuel cells.
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Never invite a vampire into your house you silly boy!

[Itchy]

[Poseidon]

[Kickstart]

Hi

Some ways I agree with you.

However fuel cells are very efficient and have no dodgy emissions at the point of use (although you can also fuel them with fossil fuels). I doubt that they will be used fueled by hydrogen, as it takes a lot of energy to split water to give hydrogen and hydrogen is very difficult to store. Not only is it explosive but very difficult to seal systems to prevent it leaking (hydrogen is a tiny atom, and leaks out of just about anything).

However IC engines are pretty inefficient (although they can also run on hydrogen), and not sure how much more they can improve their efficiency.

Suspect more likely would be fuel cells using alcohol.

Al the best

Keith
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[Itchy]

[Kickstart]

[ZRX61]

Ever see a persoj drive off from a petrol station with the hose still in the tank? just wait til ya see what happens when they do that with a Hydrogen hose...


Having said that, fuel cell cars are sold in California by H*nda

[Cigaro]