Renting a workshop by the day...

[sickpup]

I've noticed over the last few years on BCF that people often say they can't do maintenance on their own bikes as they don't have access to a workshop. So what do people think would be a fair hourly or daily rate to rent a workshop space with access to a bike lift, bench space, pillar drill, bench grinder, vice, tyre changer, air tools and compressed air supply?

On top of this what do people think would be a fair charges for specialist tools like a chain riveter, fork seal drivers, head race tools, presses etc?

[MarJay]

It would have to be pretty cheap to offset the ease of paying someone to do it. The monetary cost of paying someone is pretty high, but the hassle quotient is low.

The hassle quotient of getting a bike to a workshop, starting and finishing a job (not to mention doing the compulsory health and safety training on all of the equipment) is pretty high.

Also, if my bike is in my garage, and I start a job that I can't finish, I can get the bus to work or take the car. If I go to some random workshop in a back street and I start a job that I can't finish, and I'm paying hourly for the space, I'm pretty much banjaxed.

For me, it would have to be a few quid an hour to make it worth it, and even then I wouldn't be sure that all the tools I need would be available.
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[sickpup]

[Alex A]

Pretty much all the jobs I'd want to do myself (servicing, oil/filter change, chain adjustment, brake pads, air filter etc) I could do at home with a paddock stand and some basic inexpensive tools (sockets/torque wrench/filter removal tool/allen keys). How many chain fittings, for instance, does it take to justify the price of your own removal tool? At £50-60, it wouldn't be many visits to a workshop to make it a worthwhile one off purchase that could be used many times over. Even replacing shocks/seals is doable (albeit less quickly/easliy) with fairly basic tools at home.

The stuff I could do but would need more advanced tools (compressed air and tools, bike lift etc) is pretty rarely needed and fairly inexpensive to pay someone else to do the job for me (it is reasonably priced at the workshop I use, anyway). So long as you trust your chosen mechanic/workshop not to overcharge or claim the need for unnecessary work then it's unlikely to be of great financial benefit to do it yourself (it'll likely take you longer unless you're a mechanic anyway) and certainly isn't likely to be quicker.

Tyre fitment, for instance, is often offered at a fixed price of only £20 or so. It'd probably take me a couple of hours workshop time to do it myself, and even if it were less than £10 per hour, is the extra hassle really worth the saving?

Then there's the stuff I definately wouldn't want to do myself (cam chain/other engine work). It may well be cheaper to rent the workshop time and resources and do it myself, but I'd much rather have a qualified mechanic carry it out.

I imagine it might appeal more to people who have project bikes and can prepare a full days worth of stuff to do where better tools, space and equipment would really help and quicken the process. But even then, they have the problem of transporting the bike (which would usually not yet be roadworthy) to the workshop and back.
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Current: Ducati Panigale R / Ducati Streetfighter S / Suzuki GSX-R1000 L5

[Alex A]

Double post
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Current: Ducati Panigale R / Ducati Streetfighter S / Suzuki GSX-R1000 L5

[Barry_M2]

Sick - I'm sure I saw something like this on the news a few months back. Some guy had a workshop and hired out the car ramps for xx amount, and any tools they needed etc...

If you're going to do it, you'll need 5 or 6 ramps, hired out at around £10-£15 per hour to cover rent and rates, tool replacement etc... It's a good idea.

Is this something you're thinking of doing?
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ZXR750R (M2) - For the road.
CBR1000 RR4 - For the track.
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[sickpup]

[27cows]

Not sure if it would work by the hour. Might be quite a pressure to work under. Also, you'd either have to supervise the people who were using the workshop, or trust them with lots of very expensive equipment.

Might it not work better on a per customer basis? Someone wants to rebuild their forks and will need this or that piece of equipment - come to an arrangement you both think is fair.

[Rejimbo]

A small garage round the corner from me offers a ramp, all tools, advice of mechanic etc for £35 for the whole day

[MarJay]

I think you're wrong about health and safety training. No public liability insurer will insure you.

And I have a LOT of tools, but I regularly find that there is something I don't have and need to try to get it, either from ebay or a shop. Because I'm not a professional mechanic, I don't know every tool required for every job.

I suspect that if you do go ahead with this as a business you'll spend your time babysitting a load of bodgers who will do damage to their own bikes and possibly themselves on your premises opening you up to all sorts of litigation.

I'm not trying to be negative, I'm just seeing it from the point of view of current health and safety reality.
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[.Chris.]

Fairly sure there used to be something similar advertised in the classic car press a good few years ago called The People's Workshop. Haven't heard it mentioned for a while though so I presume it's shut down now.

Personally I think it's a nice idea, but one that I can see being quite hard to make a successful business out of. The booking system, for example, would be tricky to get right given that amateur mechanics tend to take much longer to do a job than professionals. You're likely to get people who vastly underestimate the time they'll take to do jobs, or situations where they unearth more problems that they then need to fix. You could then be in a situation where you have immobile/dismantled bikes cluttering up the workshop, disrupting later bookings. Building in slack to cope with this could hit profitability.
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Chris
1985 Kawasaki Z550F

[sickpup]

[Ingah]

I'm in the area and am possibly/probably the sort of person that would patronise this style of business, IF the price was right (i'm a student!) and i needed to do the work. I want to learn / do this "harder" work myself as and when it's required as i resent paying mechanics the large multi-hour fees to do something i could (learn to) do by myself.

I'd be surprised if the mechanically minded sort you're aiming at ordinarily pay £65/hr + for labour though, i'd figure they'd be the ones more likely to be paying the £35 for an independant (i know i do! )

Taking a look at Pit Start the first thing i'm thinking is "whoa, £10/hour!" - it's too much for me as i'm thinking it'll work out to £70-£100 for a day for a workshop to fix something that i could probably fight with at home over a longer period (despite not having a garage i'm sure i could work something out if such savings were possible).

I am concerned with the fact that i'm one of those people likely to underestimate the time in a job, so i'd want to be able to book for a longer period than i feel was required without feeling like i'm paying an unnecessarily large amount for the extra time, or i'm likely to be trying to rush my work which will make the experience unpleasant for me, and i won't fancy a return visit. Also if it costs near what a mechanic would be charging for doing it (in their quicker time), i'm out. After all, i could fail the job but my mechanic never has, and if he ever does, i wouldn't pay him!

The most likely time i personally would look to book it would be from like noon / late afternoon or early evening if it's in use during the daytime (starting somewhere in the region of 1200-1700), to late evening (2100-2300). I could probably slot in after your "daytime" customer. The added bonus is that if i overrun, i could be later for bed and maybe lighter of wallet, rather than being kicked out early to make room for another customer! The workshop better have some damn good lighting for this though (one of the biggest things i resent about no garage, especially in winter, is no late-night working on the bike).

Regarding restorations of bikes/projects (been toying with the idea of doing it myself for ages): I don't think you'll get these customers unless they own/have use of a van while additionally not having access to a garage. I can't really see anyone taking on a restoration/project without a garage though. And anyone with a garage is probably going to be more sensible and buy/rent the specialist tool they need (after all they'll have most standard tools by then i'd hope!) and do it at home. Anyone without a van is probably not going to bother as it would have to be a real big earner/major hobby to justify paying what would probably cost a fair whack, for the bike to be left there for the entire time while they finish the project.

Regarding major repair work, i think again that the customer would have to be a van owner, as that's probably the only way you can get the bike there if it needs such work (after all if it's isn't broken...)

Personally, i can do oil change, coolant change and alot of other basic tasks at home. I'd be visiting for more for the longer, more exotic jobs, more for the use of your tools worth £100s of pounds than anything else. I wouldn't be able to bring much myself though (be arriving by bike of course - but then i'll happily bring spanners etc if it saves me money and i can carry them in panniers etc)

Talking of tools, what's to stop theft of stuff? (plenty of arseholes out there as we all know)

The idea someone mentioned of having mechanical advice or similar on-site is interesting, but as a customer i'd be wary of the higher payment potentially required (maybe you can have the parts shop multitasking? - nothing to say a trained mechanic can't be a shop assistant too ) you'd probably need to to offer cheap evening/night use in that case though as i'd feel cheated paying the same as when staff are present to help. Having a parts shop on-site again sounds good as no doubt many people will realise they need some part mid-way through a job.

Random customer idea; university motorbike clubs, maybe for one evening a week, or more!
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-- Ingah

[Itchy]

Not much!,

Namely as there are people out there who see people like Nath, who reassembled his DR350 (barrel and cylinder head) in a campsite in Belgium.

If however you were to say I will rent you my workshop but I will stand over you and abuse you when you do things wrong then perhaps it is worth a bit more.
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Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.

[Nixon]

[sickpup]

[ms51ves3]

For £5 an hour you can borrow me, my tools and my garage

[Itchy]

[stirlinggaz]

hi all
l, wish there was somewhere around here that provided a service like this...
i dont have a lock up or garage & live in a mid terrace house with no chance of getting a lock up.
i have loads of tools, & i mean loads.
problem is, the shed & summerhouse is full of these tools!
my 4 bed house has 2 bedrooms full of bike parts!
the only place i can work on anything of a reasonable size is outside! (its minus 6 this week!)
this limits the amount of work i can do.
at present im currrently re-building an engine on the bedroom floor!
this costs me so much time.
there are jobs i could finish in a few days if i had access to property in which to work on.
right now i have 3 bikes that could be roadworthy in a few days rather than the few weeks/months it will probably take me im my present circs.
taking the compressor out, hooking up an extension lead, moving the bike, puting it up on stands = thats an hour or 2 right away!
then once im outside (providing its not raining & being Scotland there a fair chance of that, lol) it time 4 for a fag & a coffee!
cheers,
GAZ

[st3v3]

[Seb]

No idea on what a sensible rate would be, but I imagine it'd be a tricky balancing act to make it worthwhile, definitely a nice idea though, doing simple but mildly time consuming things like brakes is an absolute pita when it's damp and cold. Being able to rent out a decently equipped garage to do it in would be top

A couple of thoughts on top, asking for a small deposit upfront alongside the hire cost might help get the rates down a bit too? If they don't break anything they get the deposit back. Maybe even consider offering a little cheap tuition on the side too, I can't be alone in thinking that haynes/google only goes so far, having someone who knows what they are doing looking over my shoulder whilst I'm bashing away would be well worth an extra fee
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2010 Triumph 1050 Sprint ST

[Ingah]

[Paivi]

I'm not sure the H&S and public liability insurance issue is quite as simple as you make it out to be.

I don't know the first thing about tools, and if I were to do something incorrectly causing damage to the premises, other people's bikes or other people, I'm not sure your insurance company would be happy to know that I had not been given any guidance in the use of the equipment. And, I would expect your insurance to cover all that, as I wouldn't be too happy to use premises where, should I lose an eye because of another person's carelessness, I'd have to identify them and sue them for any compensation.

In any case, would you take the risk of people breaking your tools because they were using them incorrectly, perhaps bending them or overheating them? If they weren't nicking them, that is, causing you to pay back for any cancelled appointments and van hires, etc.
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My other bike's a Monster...

[sickpup]

Lets look at the possible cost savings.

Fork seal replacement.

Average shop will say 2 hours labour to remove forks and replace both seals and bushes. Now the Cheapest shop I know charges £35+vat which is at 15% at the moment so that'll be a total of £80.50 in labour.

We constantly see threads on BCF where people have replaced fork seals without using a driver and wrecked the seals we also see threads where people struggle to support bikes with the front ends off.

Now lets say the workshop hire was £10+vat an hour with lets say an extra £5+vat for hire of the correct seal driver even if you took 4 hours with your Haynes manual to do the seals it would still only cost you £45+vat so a total of £51.75, just under a £30 saving.

[Alex A]

My local workshop (a well reputed one, that is) charges about £40-50 for fork seals.
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Current: Ducati Panigale R / Ducati Streetfighter S / Suzuki GSX-R1000 L5