Legal advice re stop and search + court case

[motorcycledir...]

Hi all

I'm looking for some advice on a police stop and search I had last October.

The two police officers stopped me for no apparent reason, treated me with contempt and were quite obviously wasting time stopping me in the first place.

They gave me an endorsable (i.e. points) £60 fine for having a loose chain, they didn't take my license away, they didn't fill out the paperwork they gave me properly (I have it in front of me, incomplete), my payment of the fine was returned pending further action and I never received the points. I've just received a summons with the offense:

"The motorcycle chain was loose"

At the time I was told to get an MOT before I could ride again, which I did the following day, and passed. I know the chain was in perfect order as I had literally just changed the rear wheel, and was riding to work.

As I have never been to court I need some advice as to the strength of my case. Obviously I want to plead not guilty, but how much is it going to cost me if I lose? At the end of the day it's my word against theirs. I have no photographic proof. The only case I can sum up for myself is this:

- the officer did not check the chain properly. The following day at the garage the mechanic suggested he could testify that to check the chain's tension you need to be seated on the motorcycle, not just poke it when slack. Is this sufficient to defend myself in court??

- the officer also did not ask me whether I had a tool kit on me, which was inside the motorcycle. If he was really unsatisfied with the chain's tension, all that it required was a turn of a bolt with a spanner I had stored under the seat. Instead, after ignoring my questions about what was wrong, I was handed the paperwork and told to have a good day.

I'm told this is a 3 points offense. I've talked to my insurance company who tell me that my premium will not go up by much when I renew - these days a lot of riders have points. But that's not the point, I feel this is totally unjustified - it's whether the court fees are going to break the bank or not!

Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated,

Thanks

Matt
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Founder of www.motorcycledirectory.co.uk

[MarJay]

I'd take real legal advice if I were you. "A man who defends himself has a fool for a client" is the common maxim.

However, I suggest you consider the expertise of the copper in question, and his qualifications in determining that the chain was too loose. Show the MOT certificate and if possible get a signed statement from the tester saying that the bike was not unroadworthy.

Seriously though, get proper legal advice, don't just ask on a net forum.
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[Quickly]

As above, get legal advice, but when you do bear in mind that to be found guilty the prosecution has to establish your guilt "beyond reasonable doubt".

If you can establish corroborated evidence which cannot by its nature be contradicted by the police officer (ie the tester saying the chain is fine) together with discrepancies in the procedure followed (ie an incomplete form) then you'll place in the mind of the judge reasonable doubt.

Do seek legal advice, but do also be sure to go through absolutely everything that took place during the stop and search: did he ask you a question about the bike which would be obvious to someone who rode? Was he called on the radio while he was with you? Where did you stop? Was it busy? Did he say anything about having to be somewhere else, perhaps as a reason to 'let you off' lightly? Was there anyone else present?

All of these things used in the correct way could bring into question his suitability to inspect a bike and/or the reliability of both his judgement at the time and his testimony now.

As the poster above me said there really isn't an equivalent to seeking legal advice, but very often people don't mention 'small' things which - taken together - can be used to establish a degree of reasonable doubt.

Unfortunately however I am studying Scottish Law not English, so as regards the ins and outs I can't be of any help. Just be sure to seek legal advice. Ask about legal aid too. It may require you to sign your savings over to someone else to qualify, but if you do qualify for legal aid it might eliminate some of the financial risk.


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[motorcycledir...]

Hi

Thanks guys, great advice here.

Obviously I wasn't going to base my sole decision on a forum post Pete, but as I have never been in this situation before I thought I'd just check.

I'll let you guys know how it pans out, thanks again

Matt
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Founder of www.motorcycledirectory.co.uk

[Flip]

[MarJay]

[stinkwheel]

[Quickly]

This does come under criminal law, does it not? I mean I haven't studied English law but it's not a case between two individuals. It's being brought by the state in the public interest over a breach of a law created by legislation.
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[stinkwheel]

[and]

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[Kickstart]

Hi

As far as I know whether it is dealt with by a magistrate court or a higher court doesn't affect whether it is a criminal offense. And minor road offenses are still criminal offenses.

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[salty21]

odds are it will never reach the court room, but you will probably waste a good part of your day surrounded by scum in a waiting area

i was told to be there by 9.30am for an allocated time slot of 10.00am.................... i didn't get in till 3pm:s
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04 NSR 125(sold) ---- 03 CBR 600rr(sold) ----90 pan euro ST1100 '' ----02 CG 125
94 CB400 Super Four ---- 2000 VTR SP1 (sold) ---- 08 ninja p8f(sold, meh) ----05 CBR600rr

[Maruchino]

This is pathetic. If you get a chance to speak make sure you get a few digs in on the pathetic plod.

(note: this does not constitute as legal or even good moral advice)