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neatbik
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PostPosted: 21:16 - 22 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pass the popcorn
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hmmmnz
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PostPosted: 22:01 - 22 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think some military time would serve you well matt,
the soldiers and their families don't really get the financial or healthcare support they really need from the military, hence the charities popping up,
but i wouldn't expect you to understand that,
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bazza
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PostPosted: 22:04 - 22 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got a better troll:

https://www.newsgroper.com/files/post_images/1221962920487.jpg
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phantomtek
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PostPosted: 22:36 - 22 Feb 2010    Post subject: Re: help our heroes Reply with quote

mattsprattuk wrote:
fuck right off
money grabbing cunts


I'd love to stamp on your face Smile
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MarkJ
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PostPosted: 22:48 - 22 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obvious troll is obvious.



Still a twat, though.
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Poseidon
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PostPosted: 22:48 - 22 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you met some of the infantry boys... They need all the help they can get!
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Howling TerrorOutOfOffice
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PostPosted: 00:35 - 23 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
mechanically inept narcissitic manchild"
Oi leave us alone Smile
Hes probably just abit bored/unfullfilled


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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 16:19 - 24 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

-

One does have to wonder if Matt would take his statements above on placard and walk around outside his local Royal Navy and Royal Marines bases in Plymouth with it? Wink

https://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t231/poorjon/obvious_troll.jpg

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Feasty
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PostPosted: 16:40 - 24 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surely being in the army/navy etc is a choice? And knowing the soldiers and their families don't really get the financial or healthcare support they really need from the military is something you'd already be aware of when you joined.
Don't get me wrong I've nothing against the charities for them, I know the'yre a good cause and help a lot.

But if I died from an electric shock due to attempting to fix a server as part of my job, would I be labelled as a hero!? I don't think so...
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The Original Muzza
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PostPosted: 16:50 - 24 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought it was more to do with aftercare from physical/psychological damage? For example if you got an electric shock due to faulty equipment or tools you'd probably get a tasty big payout from someone.
The gub'mint just tosses the soldiers out on their arse and says "Bye now, you're no use to us anymore with only one arm."
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chrisw
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PostPosted: 18:01 - 24 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure how much thought Matt put into the original post (my guess would be very little).

I can't help but partly agree with it (although probably not for the same reason).

Joining the armed forces is a choice. You are not forced into it. You must also therefore be fully aware of the risk of getting injured or killed and also be aware of the poor aftercare given by the armed forces to injured combatants.

While I don't think it's quite right that someone in the services gets such poor aftercare, I also don't think it's the place of a charity to solve the problem, it should be down to the government, they are, after all, the employer.

Now, preparing for a flammable statement....I also don't class combatants in the current 'war' to be heroes.
They are a paid-up fighting force sent into an unwanted conflict on the whim of an untrustworthy president/PM.
They have been sent to kill people I don't believe needed killing. So technically, if I cared to form such an opinion, they would be murderers rather than heroes, but I don't care for such an opinion so I don't hold it, for the moment I will stay neutral.
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MattHirst
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PostPosted: 18:05 - 24 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your mums lover was... wrote:
I thought it was more to do with aftercare from physical/psychological damage? For example if you got an electric shock due to faulty equipment or tools you'd probably get a tasty big payout from someone.
The gub'mint just tosses the soldiers out on their arse and says "Bye now, you're no use to us anymore with only one arm."


But if i got my arm stuck in a machine at work, i'd be bent over and spanked by the HSE asking why i was putting my arm in there.

Then i would be kicked out of the door because i'd be no use to my employer with only 1 arm. It's not just the military, it's the same in a lot of jobs.

I have nothing against these charities and i know they do a lot of work to raise money for folk, but i tell you one thing, they won't get a penny out of me. That goes for ANY charity. I know it sounds harsh but would they donate money to me if i stood in the middle of town with a bucket asking to donate money for a new extension on the house? I seriously doubt it.

They go into the army/navy/RAF knowing the risks, it's their own personal choice, if they can't face the risk of losing limbs or even losing their own life then maybe they are in the wrong job.
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The Original Muzza
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PostPosted: 18:13 - 24 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

MattHirst wrote:


But if i got my arm stuck in a machine at work, i'd be bent over and spanked by the HSE asking why i was putting my arm in there.

Then i would be kicked out of the door because i'd be no use to my employer with only 1 arm. It's not just the military, it's the same in a lot of jobs.


And what if you got your arm caught whilst following HSE guidelines regarding the machine, under your employers instruction? You'd more than likely get some form of severance Wink payout.

I don't give to charities either but I can see the point in some of them, rather than just some money grabbers.
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bazza
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PostPosted: 20:40 - 24 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

MattHirst wrote:
They go into the army/navy/RAF knowing the risks, it's their own personal choice, if they can't face the risk of losing limbs or even losing their own life then maybe they are in the wrong job.


Well said. Do away with voluntary armed forces and introduce conscription. That'll stop the whinging.
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MattHirst
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PostPosted: 21:57 - 24 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your mums lover was... wrote:
MattHirst wrote:


But if i got my arm stuck in a machine at work, i'd be bent over and spanked by the HSE asking why i was putting my arm in there.

Then i would be kicked out of the door because i'd be no use to my employer with only 1 arm. It's not just the military, it's the same in a lot of jobs.


And what if you got your arm caught whilst following HSE guidelines regarding the machine, under your employers instruction? You'd more than likely get some form of severance Wink payout.

I don't give to charities either but I can see the point in some of them, rather than just some money grabbers.


Not possible with the machines that i work with. They all have interlocking guards so the only way i could get my arm ripped off would be to bypass the interlocks and stick my arm in with the doors/guards open. To be honest we do bypass them sometimes but only when setting machines, never with the spindle running (milling machines if you're wondering).

I know some charities aren't just money grabbing swine bags but some of them are. Help for Heroes seems to be a decent charity but you just won't find me giving them any money.

Whoever said that it is more down to physcological damage rather than physical. So what if i have seen something or been a victim of something that has seriously warped my mind, i would have to seek help on the NHS as i can't afford private. Whats wrong with service men/women using the NHS's services like everyone else has to, why do they rely on charities to pay for them to seek professional help?

I know what i mean, i just found it difficult to put it into words.
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The Original Muzza
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PostPosted: 22:57 - 24 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never said MORE for psychological than physical, just both of them. A soldier with PTSD may require extensive and expensive therapy that would be unaffordable for an out of work traumatised soldier. It would also be unfair for the taxpayer to foot the bill as most of us say "It's their job, they know what they're getting into." So charities like this need to exist, to draw money from those who care enough to give money.

I can think of countless charities that get my attention more (donkey sanctuaries, RSPCA etc) but then again I'm not a humanitarian, towards war veterans or otherwise.
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Poseidon
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PostPosted: 23:00 - 24 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://rblcheltenham.org/images/rbllogo.jpg

Get my money everytime... They help the heros, both dead and alive!
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st3v3
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PostPosted: 02:39 - 25 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your mums lover was... wrote:
It would also be unfair for the taxpayer to foot the bill as most of us say "It's their job, they know what they're getting into."
Why? Our G'ment send them to war once they willingly sign up, I don't get why they shouldn't also be paid by the same arm that casts them outfield? If we stopped paying for useless shitty services like EU membership and immigrant related bollocks then we'd be far more likely to afford our own services and support our actions.


I fully agree with both Matt's, the ony charity I donate to, is Yorkshire Air Ambulance because that's a value service that I may day have the benefit of, what do I get out of donating to some charity that helps soldiers who've chosen to go have their arm blown off? If I wanted to, or wanted to be getting value from such services I'd sign up and go get a limb severed.
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Catalyst
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PostPosted: 03:09 - 25 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some people can really read into things too much. The name Heroes is just a name, it fits and it's catchy so people are more likely to remember it.

Still, the definition of a "Hero" is "A man of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities.". So going by that definition i think it's fair to say someone who has had their legs blown off and isn't moaning about it is a hero. They are showing distinguished courage by not moaning and wallowing about the fact their life has been ruined. If you read into it you'd see that a lot of soldiers that have lost limbs, done so by running to injured comrades. Something that most civvy's wouldn't even think to do, let alone have the cajones to do it.
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ms51ves3
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PostPosted: 09:57 - 25 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

st3v3 wrote:
Your mums lover was... wrote:
It would also be unfair for the taxpayer to foot the bill as most of us say "It's their job, they know what they're getting into."
Why? Our G'ment send them to war once they willingly sign up, I don't get why they shouldn't also be paid by the same arm that casts them outfield? If we stopped paying for useless shitty services like EU membership and immigrant related bollocks then we'd be far more likely to afford our own services and support our actions.


Why would the government pay soldiers more if people are still joining up? That's just business sense.
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GhostRider
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PostPosted: 13:09 - 25 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can;t help but get a bit miffed whenever soldiers are interviewed and have been injured whilst on the front line "did it for their country, serving the queen etc", cuz really I know quite a few forces people, and none of them have said their reason for joining was to serve their country and the queen, more like it was for the adventure/see the world/whatever lies were told to them at the recruitment office.

Just find it funny how that line and motivation comes out of the woodwork from time to time, then again I suppose they have to try and draw the sympathy vote since most peoples perspective of soldiers isn't favourable, be they on the front line or otherwise.

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smegballs
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PostPosted: 14:25 - 25 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

GhostRider wrote:
I can;t help but get a bit miffed whenever soldiers are interviewed and have been injured whilst on the front line "did it for their country, serving the queen etc", cuz really I know quite a few forces people, and none of them have said their reason for joining was to serve their country and the queen, more like it was for the adventure/see the world/whatever lies were told to them at the recruitment office.

Just find it funny how that line and motivation comes out of the woodwork from time to time, then again I suppose they have to try and draw the sympathy vote since most peoples perspective of soldiers isn't favourable, be they on the front line or otherwise.

GhostRider


When one of my friends joined up (since quit due to the recruiting office lies) he said that for plenty of the upcountry people joining the army was actually a step up in their lives.

For him it was a huge step down, going from living with his grandparents in a nice big farmhouse in the country etc to the army. For plenty of others however, army life was brilliant; I got told about plenty of people who outside were dealing drugs, living in rough estates etc etc who really like the army as it was a change for the better!
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st3v3
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PostPosted: 16:34 - 25 Feb 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

ms51ves3 wrote:
st3v3 wrote:
Why? Our G'ment send them to war once they willingly sign up, I don't get why they shouldn't also be paid by the same arm that casts them outfield? If we stopped paying for useless shitty services like EU membership and immigrant related bollocks then we'd be far more likely to afford our own services and support our actions.


Why would the government pay soldiers more if people are still joining up? That's just business sense.
Paying more? I didn't say they should....

My post was saying that after a solider is left unable to soldier due to injury then the g'ment should pay it. If I were injured at work and claimed, work would be fined etc and it would come from them - not some random 'office hero charity' fund pot.

Hollis, I don't quite think 'If you read into it you'd see that a lot of soldiers that have lost limbs, done so by running to injured comrades. Something that most civvy's wouldn't even think to do, let alone have the cajones to do it' counts as noble, it's merely a side effect reaction of being stuck in the field under threat of death and looking out for a colleugue. if my work had a fire and someone was stuck inside, I'd instinctively be heading back in to help, no doubt risking at least minor injury becauise instinctively I'm a helpy person, this isn't heroic it's human instinct under extreme cicumstances.
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