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Total Loss Ignition

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Paulington
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PostPosted: 01:32 - 11 Mar 2010    Post subject: Total Loss Ignition Reply with quote

Can anyone give me a bigger insight into this form of ignition?

I have found a bike which is decent price for the age (2007) and has been tracked but seems very well looked after and has a fair few modifications etc, no visible damage that I can see.

However, it runs total loss ignition, whilst I understand it takes all power from the battery and doesn't recharge is it okay to be recharged with a trickle charger etc?

The bike is a Daytona 675 and if anyone knows the amp/hour of the battery could they roughly guess how long it'd need between recharges? Was thinking of getting a spare battery to take on long journeys anyway.

Cheers.
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Devans
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PostPosted: 01:39 - 11 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Killswitch?
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Paulington
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PostPosted: 01:40 - 11 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Devans wrote:
Killswitch?

It has one, if that is what you are implying. Laughing.

Noobie to this form of ignition on motorcycles, only ever used it on karts.
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Current Vehicles: '89 Kawasaki KDX200, '99 Yamaha XV535, '00 Honda ST1100 Pan-European, '08 Suzuki GSX-R1000, '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GS4 2.0 TDCi, '15 BMW 1 Series 116d Sport Turbo.
CBT: 27/08/08. Theory: 04/09/09. Module 1: 16/09/09. Module 2: 01/10/09.
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hmmmnz
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PostPosted: 01:41 - 11 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

just turn it back into a normal system, you coulld probably find all the gear on ebay for about the price of a decent new battery
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Paulington
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PostPosted: 01:43 - 11 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmmmnz wrote:
just turn it back into a normal system, you coulld probably find all the gear on ebay for about the price of a decent new battery

I was thinking of doing this but it depends what has been removed.

If it is just the flywheel changed, then can do that but if the entire stator/rectifier etc has been removed then it may be a bit more of a hassle.
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"Four wheels move the body, two wheels move the soul."
Current Vehicles: '89 Kawasaki KDX200, '99 Yamaha XV535, '00 Honda ST1100 Pan-European, '08 Suzuki GSX-R1000, '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GS4 2.0 TDCi, '15 BMW 1 Series 116d Sport Turbo.
CBT: 27/08/08. Theory: 04/09/09. Module 1: 16/09/09. Module 2: 01/10/09.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 01:49 - 11 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Not sure on the Daytona. It might use a piggy back separate alternator above the gearbox and it would be easy to remove this. But also pretty easy to replace.

Regulator / rectifier would be pretty easy to put back on.

I would be more concerned over how much the wiring has been butchered when the charging system was removed.

For the road it would be a nightmare. Suspect the battery would be dead fairly rapidly. Not a problem on a 20 minute track day session (and a couple of spare batteries for the day). Being fuel injected I suspect it will need a fair amount of power (mainly for the fuel pump).

All the best

Keith
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 08:42 - 11 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

What Keith said.

IMO It's not worth the hassle unless it's a good £1k less than the others.

You'd have to assume they've completely butchered the loom(unless it's a kit loom) and budget for a completely new one to eliminate niggly problems in a few months time.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 08:56 - 11 Mar 2010    Post subject: Re: Total Loss Ignition Reply with quote

Paulington wrote:
Can anyone give me a bigger insight into this form of ignition?

I have found a bike which is decent price for the age (2007) and has been tracked but seems very well looked after and has a fair few modifications etc, no visible damage that I can see.

However, it runs total loss ignition, whilst I understand it takes all power from the battery and doesn't recharge is it okay to be recharged with a trickle charger etc?

The bike is a Daytona 675 and if anyone knows the amp/hour of the battery could they roughly guess how long it'd need between recharges? Was thinking of getting a spare battery to take on long journeys anyway.

Cheers.


If you buy a race bike with a total loss ignition system for the road you're a pratt. If you take a spare battery with you 'for long journeys' you're also a pratt.

It is possible to sort it out but is the extra hassle worth the saving of a few quid on the price? I don't think so.
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Smooth
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PostPosted: 09:48 - 11 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

A mate of mine once had a Mk1 VW Jetta with a 'total loss' ignition system (ie. the battery kept discharging so he charged-up and swapped-in his Dad's Jag XJ6 battery). We didn't know about it until it wouldn't start 30 miles from home..... It turned out that the alternator was knackered.

Don't do it!
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Paulington
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PostPosted: 12:47 - 11 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

2007 Daytona: £5000 give or take.
This Daytona: £2200.

Plenty of saving, hence the looking at it, hence the reason of wondering how much it'd cost to revert to normal.
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"Four wheels move the body, two wheels move the soul."
Current Vehicles: '89 Kawasaki KDX200, '99 Yamaha XV535, '00 Honda ST1100 Pan-European, '08 Suzuki GSX-R1000, '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GS4 2.0 TDCi, '15 BMW 1 Series 116d Sport Turbo.
CBT: 27/08/08. Theory: 04/09/09. Module 1: 16/09/09. Module 2: 01/10/09.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 13:07 - 11 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paulington wrote:
2007 Daytona: £5000 give or take.
This Daytona: £2200.

Plenty of saving, hence the looking at it, hence the reason of wondering how much it'd cost to revert to normal.


Well I suppose you could get a second hand loom, but you'd also need lights, indicators, decent bodywork, number plate etc etc.

Also, I'd make sure it had a V5 and that all the numbers match etc. There are a lot of stolen bikes which end up on the track. I know its probably a TTC bike and therefore legit, but still I'd be very very careful buying a secondhand race bike TBH.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 13:11 - 11 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Find out what else has been done ( bits chopped off the frame will destroy the resale value), but at that price it could be worth it easily. However if it has been thrown down the track a few times then there might well be plenty of other damage.

All the best

Keith
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Paulington
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PostPosted: 13:48 - 11 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://media.dogsandpuppies.co.uk/files/instance-01/main_photo/2010/03/09/54/33/ed64b845cd5ce434b05a81c5cc43b473-http___paa.friday-ad.co.uk_PhotoAds_YI_Large_YI005AFC7-480x300.jpg
https://media.dogsandpuppies.co.uk/files/instance-01/main_photo/2010/03/09/54/33/d354895893395d939f6bf13865f5aa81-http___paa.friday-ad.co.uk_PhotoAds_YI_Large_YI005AFC7_2-480x300.jpg
https://media.dogsandpuppies.co.uk/files/instance-01/main_photo/2010/03/09/54/33/1dbf6173192556eafb90316dc1d772bc-http___paa.friday-ad.co.uk_PhotoAds_YI_Large_YI005AFC7_3-480x300.jpg
https://media.dogsandpuppies.co.uk/files/instance-01/main_photo/2010/03/09/54/33/fdc898162725af51445dfb9e41ccf3eb-http___paa.friday-ad.co.uk_PhotoAds_YI_Large_YI005AFC7_4-480x300.jpg


Is the bike in question, it has all lights fitted and it has a long MOT and Tax so I'm assuming they all work. Razz. Has standard clocks and nothing is actually *missing* from the bike besides whatever they removed to make it total loss.

As for being thrown down the track, it may well have done but I can't see any form of damage from the pictures he has up, will inspect closer when I view it.

I will check all the numbers MarJay, thanks for the suggestion. As you said it's probably a TTC bike he's bought, stripped down for the track and just put it all back on to sell it. Second hand loom shouldn't too much.

Thanks for all the help. Smile.
____________________
"Four wheels move the body, two wheels move the soul."
Current Vehicles: '89 Kawasaki KDX200, '99 Yamaha XV535, '00 Honda ST1100 Pan-European, '08 Suzuki GSX-R1000, '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GS4 2.0 TDCi, '15 BMW 1 Series 116d Sport Turbo.
CBT: 27/08/08. Theory: 04/09/09. Module 1: 16/09/09. Module 2: 01/10/09.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 13:55 - 11 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paulington wrote:


I will check all the numbers MarJay, thanks for the suggestion. As you said it's probably a TTC bike he's bought, stripped down for the track and just put it all back on to sell it. Second hand loom shouldn't too much.

Thanks for all the help. Smile.


It does seem too good to be true somehow. Check the frame and engine numbers carefully. Have a look at a genuine nearly new 675 in a dealership and make sure the font and style of chassis numbers matches with the font and style of the genuine bike.

It may be possible to check if it is a TTC bike, let me get back to you on that.
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.
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Paulington
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PostPosted: 14:03 - 11 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
It does seem too good to be true somehow. Check the frame and engine numbers carefully. Have a look at a genuine nearly new 675 in a dealership and make sure the font and style of chassis numbers matches with the font and style of the genuine bike.

It may be possible to check if it is a TTC bike, let me get back to you on that.

It does, absolutely. I did say this from the beginning and my friend has a 675 so I know how they look genuine etc.

However, those who dare, win and it's worth a shot on the off chance that it might be true at that price.

If you can find a way, yes please do get back to me.
____________________
"Four wheels move the body, two wheels move the soul."
Current Vehicles: '89 Kawasaki KDX200, '99 Yamaha XV535, '00 Honda ST1100 Pan-European, '08 Suzuki GSX-R1000, '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GS4 2.0 TDCi, '15 BMW 1 Series 116d Sport Turbo.
CBT: 27/08/08. Theory: 04/09/09. Module 1: 16/09/09. Module 2: 01/10/09.
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Bendy
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PostPosted: 17:29 - 11 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

TTC bikes don't run total loss. That's against the rules.

HPI check it.
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Paulington
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PostPosted: 17:33 - 11 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bendy wrote:
TTC bikes don't run total loss. That's against the rules.

HPI check it.

Meh, could just be a tracked bike then.

Going to look at it so it should be okay, but I will HPI it as soon as I have the reg. Smile.
____________________
"Four wheels move the body, two wheels move the soul."
Current Vehicles: '89 Kawasaki KDX200, '99 Yamaha XV535, '00 Honda ST1100 Pan-European, '08 Suzuki GSX-R1000, '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GS4 2.0 TDCi, '15 BMW 1 Series 116d Sport Turbo.
CBT: 27/08/08. Theory: 04/09/09. Module 1: 16/09/09. Module 2: 01/10/09.
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jay12329
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PostPosted: 17:38 - 11 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 675 is a pig to run total loss. Most race bikes end up using a modified race generator so that they actually have enough juice to run a whole race.

If you get 30miles out of a battery you'll be lucky.

If you want to PM me the info on the bike I'll have a look for you, i've done quite a bit of work on these having owned one and spent 3 years with a race team running a pair. With lots of generator fun!

HTH
J
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jay12329
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PostPosted: 17:52 - 11 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

You also mention its got a fair few mods, those pictures show a bog standard bike, with the original chain and sprockets. Only visible mod is a slightly smaller number plate.

J
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 18:11 - 12 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

An ex track bike on tyres like that? I'm not sure I believe it. Is the seller Nigerian?
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Ste
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PostPosted: 18:22 - 12 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

2006 TRIUMPH DAYTONA 675, 2006, private seller, 5289 miles, MoT Dec 10, tax Nov 10, For sale is my Triumph 675. This bike is fantastic and tricked up to the eyeballs with loads of upgrades listed below. The bike is 07 and I know the previous owner who I bought it from and it has had a very good life! It has been maintained to the highest standard with oil change after every outing. It kicks out about 133bhp (I have dyno sheets) It will happily run with the fast British Supersport riders with the right person riding. I have had the forks and Shock set up, racing at my weight 11.5 stone fully kitted the bike handles like a dream and is the best handling bike I have ever ridden. The power curve is the best it can be and has been mapped to getthe best out of the engine. It runs total loss ignition and has a new battery fitted. It has just been serviced and is ready to go race or trackday. This bike produces more power at the back wheel than a 2003 standard R1. £2200.00 ono, Chippenham.



Either the seller isn't very good at writing adverts or it's a scam.
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Smooth
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PostPosted: 18:24 - 12 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
It runs total loss ignition and has a new battery fitted


Translation: the Reg/rec or alternator is knackered.

I would be very wary of that bike.....
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Bendy
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PostPosted: 18:34 - 12 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it was as great as he makes it sound (which I don't believe for a second) he wouldn't be flogging it as a £2200 roadbike.

If he actually knew what he was talking about, and had a bike with a knackered charging system, he'd be splitting it for parts and making more than £2200.

I doubt it even exists! Mega-scam.
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Ariel Badger
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PostPosted: 19:06 - 12 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1 for HPI, why was it tracked in the first place, insurance write-off, nicked?
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 19:11 - 12 Mar 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ariel Badger wrote:
+1 for HPI, why was it tracked in the first place, insurance write-off, nicked?


I reckon its a clone of a real 675 and so will come up clean on a HPI check.
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