How do I get my knee down? (Pics)

[St0rmer66]

Did California Superbike School a few weeks ago and it has improved my riding massively, I was genuinely surprised at how much difference it has made . I'm going faster with less effort and leaning further over than ever before (no chicken strips on the rear AT ALL). However... I still haven't got my knee down. Now I've heard G say plenty of times on here that it's not necessarily how far you lean but more down to your body position. So what am I doing wrong? Some photos of me riding on the CSS:

https://img51.imageshack.us/img51/5099/imageoutput.jpg
https://img823.imageshack.us/img823/2389/imageoutput1.jpg

Preview pics from the website will have to do for now because my CD of all the images hasn't arrived yet (I HAVE BOUGHT THEM, I'm not just being a pikey and stealing the images! ).

So what do I need to do?? . Got a track day at Rockingham on Saturday and would like to get rid of my knee sliders virginity!

Cheers.
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:: Honda XR 125 L ('53) => Kawasaki GPZ 500S ('02) => Suzuki SV650S ('00) => Aprilia RSV-R ('51) ::

[garth]

Sit back, hang an arse cheek off, try and headbutt the mirror and point you leg towards the rear of the bike, not down towards the tarmac.

If your outer forearm isn't resting against the tank, you can lean off more.
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[G]

[garth]

It's been said on here before, but alot of people seem to be fixated on getting their knee down rather than it being a bi-product of cornering well.

I tend to use my knee as a gauge of lean. When my knee goes down, I don't go any faster / Lean any more.
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[St0rmer66]

Whilst I will admit there is a part of me that just wants some pretty pictures of me with my knee down ... I do think that having the correct body position in the first place is a good idea. Otherwise I may eventually find myself running out of lean without realising and going into a low-side. I think I'm a fair way off that happening just yet, but I'd like to get it right from the beginning. Even just having the right body position without having my knee all the way down just looks better and it can only help surely?

I'll probably give trying to headbutt the mirrors a miss because they're going to be sat in my garage at home, can't see that ending well . Thanks for the advice guys! Encouraging to know my lower body position isn't too bad, will work on my upper body more. I was still in the process of getting used to actively counter steering and looking at the apex while these photos were taken so I did have a fair bit on my mind already... these are all things that will come naturally eventually though .
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:: Honda XR 125 L ('53) => Kawasaki GPZ 500S ('02) => Suzuki SV650S ('00) => Aprilia RSV-R ('51) ::

[Spit-Fire]

rsv is quite a tall bike also, might make it a little harder at 1st
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[bEN_]

Check youtube for 'how to get your knee down'

endless amount of video's literally showing you which should give your more help than just reading it off here
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[northernmonke...]

what sort of experience do you guys have before doing css?

I just passed in march but would like some more (useful!) training on leaning and cornering

[G]

Raced for a couple of years and read twist of the wrist a reasonable amount.
I was disapointed - it didn't offer what I hoped for and they promised.

I'd read twist of the wrist etc first off, much better value for money at least.
It's still worth considering, but you can learn a lot your self on the three trackdays you could buy for the money and actually get a decent track experience at the same time!

[Whosthedaddy]

I can see my position in those photos, and like you never got a knee down but good use of the full width of the rubber. It feels natural and I'm more than happy rather than hanging off further and further.
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[Paulington]

I find I don't lean off a lot, but as said before the usage of the knee is to gauge angle of lean.

On the SV650, when my knee hit the floor I knew I had about ~5-6mm left on the shoulder of the tyre to play with.

It's god awful quality, but you can see my body position:

https://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs038.snc4/34246_408843731370_544131370_5066482_998306_n.jpg.
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CBT: 27/08/08. Theory: 04/09/09. Module 1: 16/09/09. Module 2: 01/10/09.

[G]

Oh and it should be noted that you have to have a good feel of the bike/riding generally to use your knee as a 'maximum lean' guage - obviously it depends on things like speed and surface too.
On track I will often try and hold my knee just above where it will touch down with my 'normal' riding for that corner on track - that way I know I'm going a bit faster than previously if it touches down.

Unfortunately you can't quite get an idea of the position and perhaps I could still have had my upper body slightly further off (not much time to get into position there), but this was Snetterton last weekend:
https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4080/4767172287_965f704d87.jpg

Where possible, you want to get into a pretty good position before the corner starts. However, presuming you're not right on the limit, the triple left hand at Rockingham gives you some time to adjust your position.

[DynaMight]

It's hard to practise on track IMO, especially a new track. I find it best to learn on the road, a road you know well. I'm not talking about actually getting your knee down but learning to hang off, not unsettle the bike etc. You will probably feel like an idiot as you'll be hanging off but not leaning that far but its just to get an idea of what to do.

Personally, I sit back in the seat, get one butt cheek off, put the ball of the feet on the end of the foot peg but the most important thing is to lock in with your other knee, if you're hanging and needing to hold on with your hands then you're doing it wrong.

One of my favourite pics was taken by my wife when I was on someones elses bike!

https://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o114/DynaMight/SWB%20Trackday%202010/LlandowCBR600.jpg

Once you do it once, you'll do it all the time after that.
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[G]

Yea, one thing I've gone on about before is practicing the position on roundabouts, general riding, work car park etc.

I may look silly going into the work car park with the bike vertical hanging off like a gibbon, but it means your body is used to the position, so on track I naturally fall into it.
I often found as I upped the pace that my body position suffered, as I was having to *think* to get it right.

[evoboy]

Ive never been able to 'lock' my leg into the tank as im too tall and it feels uncomfortable. I tend to put all my weight on my inside leg/foot and nothing on the outside. ( can take my foot off the outside peg)

Not sure if its 'correct' but it feels natural to me....

I also use my slider as a lean angle gauge and dont feel the need to have it melting on the tarmac, but more kissing/skipping along it.

https://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs171.snc3/19880_282816627249_797677249_3367473_8322333_n.jpg
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[Paulington]

[St0rmer66]

Okay I've got the better photos now and some from different angles:

https://img203.imageshack.us/img203/9223/1yy5594.th.jpg
https://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8332/1yy5510.th.jpg
https://img651.imageshack.us/img651/1623/1yy5470.th.jpg
https://img705.imageshack.us/img705/7483/1yy4866.th.jpg
https://img682.imageshack.us/img682/7820/1yy3980.th.jpg

Click for bigger versions .

Click for my favourite one!

Looks like my outside leg isn't locked into the tank which is probably a side effect of me not getting my arse of the seat enough!
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:: Honda XR 125 L ('53) => Kawasaki GPZ 500S ('02) => Suzuki SV650S ('00) => Aprilia RSV-R ('51) ::

[MarkJ]

To me looks as though you're just not sticking the knee out far enough, and maybe need to move off the bike a little more. I agree with whoever said try and point it to the back of the bike

[ssruk]

i know it may sound dumb but try sticking your nee out you cant get it down if its on the side of bike unless you sliding down the track
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[Frost]

Hang off more. That will get you a bit closer to the ground though it does feel weird at first. A side effect of this will be that when going round a corner at the same speed as before, the bike will be more upright due to your weight being shifted. You will therefore need to / be able to go quicker with the same lean angle.

[Al]

I'm not so sure that I buy into the whole perfect body positioning thing.
I'm sure there is more important things that are limiting people from riding fast then where they point there head or angle there knee.

I'm not really one to disprove the theory as I'm slow and have bad body positioning but when even top level GP racers such as
De puniet-
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/big_al/243585.jpg
You need to shift your upper body over mate.

and Colin Edwards-
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/big_al/ColinEdwards_Laguna_RHFF_Wall_1024.jpg
Remember to lock the outside leg in Colin.

Aren't doing it right it kinda makes you wonder how important it is for the average guy on the street/track.
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[nick606]

One thing i want to know is what do you do about weight distribution? where are you suppose to be carrying your weight ? on your wrists, inside leg, outside leg what is the dealio ?

[MarJay]

[G]

[the grim reaper]

The trick I learnt was to wheel your bike up so the right hand mirror is 1mm from a wall, put the bike on the sidestand and get a mate to hold it while you climb on and hang off towards the wall. Try to touch the wall with your knee, that is the body position you need.

My effort at Cadwell:

https://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/paul3011/Kneedownhall.jpg

Local roundabout (whilst closed, obviously )

https://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/paul3011/P7100007.jpg

Cheers

Grim
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