RF600RV, no longer a rattle in chain, pics added!

[Jinkz]

Right, so i've changed the cam chain tensioner, the one that came out was fine anyway. It still rattles at around 3k whilst standing.

I've taken the top off the engine, checked the chain, all seems good and is very taught with only a fraction of slack in the chain (moving it up and down, it doesn't hang at all).

I can't see the guides, but they are there, and look to be in place.

Any suggestions? So far i've had check compression, check bushes/bearing in the top cam.

It's really annoying, everything looks so tidy and complete, and the engine has never been opened.

The bike is a 1998 model and has done just 25k.
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- Jinkz-

Bikes owned: RF600RV - 1998, NSR125R - 2001, GSX600F - 1998, Vespa - 2008 (won it! not sure what model?!)

[swanny]

engine mounts possibly, may be a bolt thats rattling and not actually anything mechanically wrong with it,

turn the bike on, get it running at 3k and locate the noise yourself, and you might see a loose bolt..

hope this helps

Mark
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M SWANNY.. see a sig !

[Jinkz]

Definitely not a mount, it runs like a pig, it's horrible, i'd think it was a 50cc bike that gradually gets up to 90mph!
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- Jinkz-

Bikes owned: RF600RV - 1998, NSR125R - 2001, GSX600F - 1998, Vespa - 2008 (won it! not sure what model?!)

[temeluchus]

RF600 was well known for shitty carburetion.

I'd start there-if they are out of balance the motor will rattle as the cylinders fight eachother. Also check the condition of the seals, floats, float needle/seat and the emulsion tubes.

In fine fettle the rf should hit 130-140 or so.
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Some shite cruiser. Now with guns and FREEDOM!

[Jinkz]

Cool ok, from what people have said so far, it's pretty much check over everything in the engine! I just wish I had an expert standing over me that could spot whatever it is straight the way. Also sounds like a big job, would it be a big job to check over/replace those things if needed?
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- Jinkz-

Bikes owned: RF600RV - 1998, NSR125R - 2001, GSX600F - 1998, Vespa - 2008 (won it! not sure what model?!)

[temeluchus]

like i said, its the carburettors most likely. You'll need to get the tank off, airbox off and remove the carburettors.

The carburettors arent part of the engine They are clamped to it but thats not the same thing.

These should give you a rough idea.

https://www.offroad.com/atv/tech/atv-tech-basic-carburetor-cleanup-52101.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JOymZR_rUs
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Some shite cruiser. Now with guns and FREEDOM!

[Jinkz]

Yeah i've taken the carbs out already (sorry meant engine as a whole whatevers under the tank ), taken the top of engine too to check the chain etc, just haven't really touched cleaning them up in the past, i've got no problem stripping bits down, and I let my dad do all the technical bits, just need to know what I attack first. Thanks for the links.

I'll keep this thread updated this weekend let you know how i've got on.

One thing though if I need new needles etc. where would be the best place to pick those up from, I live in the Midlands if there's anywhere local?
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- Jinkz-

Bikes owned: RF600RV - 1998, NSR125R - 2001, GSX600F - 1998, Vespa - 2008 (won it! not sure what model?!)

[temeluchus]

You should be able to get new float needles from your suzuki dealer.

part 1325031E00 (CMSNL.com is useful to find part numbers).

It may be possible to find pattern parts-i'll take a look. I bought some complete overhaul kits for my old GSXR a few years ago I'll try and find the supplier.

The carbs are Mikuni BDST36 so may be fitted to other models as well.
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Some shite cruiser. Now with guns and FREEDOM!

[temeluchus]

Wemoto carry them.

https://www.wemoto.com/bikes/Suzuki/RF_600_RT_RV/96-97/picture/Carburettor_Gasket_and_Float_Valve_Kit/

Thats Per carb. If you plan on keeping the bike, then its worthwhile replacing the gaskets as well.
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Some shite cruiser. Now with guns and FREEDOM!

[Jinkz]

Ok so i've just got back from about a 1 mile walk with the bike!

I cleaned out the carbs, floats, needles etc and put it all back together, booted it up and it sounded loads better, no rattle around the 3k or 6k mark anymore but just a slight rattle all over, so I thought i'll take it because i'd fitted a new chain tensioner and it might self adjust itself a bit.

Out on the road, it sounded horrible still, picked up a little better this time but I decided to turn around after 2 miles and take it back, I pulled into a road, and pulled it backwards and it wasn't very loose at all, really dragged, even with the clutch held in. Got about a mile away, just under a VERY steep hill and came over a bridge and heard a 'ping' noise, and a rattle, kept going for about 20 metres and pulled over and with another few horrible noises it stalled completely.

It wouldn't turn over at all, which is good because something nasty has happened! I'm going to open it up on Tuesday, but I suspect i'll find a snapped cam chain, at a minimum...

Not a happy day at all
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- Jinkz-

Bikes owned: RF600RV - 1998, NSR125R - 2001, GSX600F - 1998, Vespa - 2008 (won it! not sure what model?!)

[Jinkz]

One thing to note, which made me think it might be the gearbox now, is before it broke down, I turned it around in the road, and when I pulled it backwards, in 1st gear with the clutch pulled in, it was really heavy and I really had to drag it backwards?

Just something someone mentioned, because it did move for another 10 metres or so after I heard the break, which sounds like the cam chain might have still been in tact at that point?
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- Jinkz-

Bikes owned: RF600RV - 1998, NSR125R - 2001, GSX600F - 1998, Vespa - 2008 (won it! not sure what model?!)

[Kickstart]

Hi

I take it you disassembled the cam chain tensioner to fit it?

If you have the clutch pulled and it is still jammed and won't crank over then that suggests an engine or clutch failure rather than a gearbox failure.

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[Jinkz]

Yeah it was just a case of 2 bolts, pulled the old one out and put the new tensioner in.

If I pull the clutch in, the bike will still freely move, but I can't get the bike to start up. If it's in gear it just rocks backwards and forwards a little without it moving.
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- Jinkz-

Bikes owned: RF600RV - 1998, NSR125R - 2001, GSX600F - 1998, Vespa - 2008 (won it! not sure what model?!)

[Kickstart]

[Jinkz]

Sorry I made it sound a bit simple, I didn't do it myself I just stood over and watched while my dad tackled it for about 10 minutes, I did see him rock it about etc. We had a full original service manual with the bike so he followed that. There was still a tiny fraction of slack in the chain but most of it was taken up.

[edit I do remember he didn't actually tighten the bolt in right until the end after playing with the tention etc.]
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- Jinkz-

Bikes owned: RF600RV - 1998, NSR125R - 2001, GSX600F - 1998, Vespa - 2008 (won it! not sure what model?!)

[Jinkz]

Ok, I couldnt help it, I went home on my dinner break from work, ripped it apart while eating a baguette, and the cam chain in entirely intact!

I think maybe a broken clutch disk now?
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- Jinkz-

Bikes owned: RF600RV - 1998, NSR125R - 2001, GSX600F - 1998, Vespa - 2008 (won it! not sure what model?!)

[Kickstart]

[temeluchus]

Someone in its past must have really neglected the poor bike, they arent the easiest engines to break!
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Some shite cruiser. Now with guns and FREEDOM!

[Jinkz]

I noticed that the tank has been off in the past, but I don't think the carbs have ever been removed, and the engine cover has never been off, I was the first one to put some marks in the bolts, I think they are a magnesium alloy so very bendy.
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- Jinkz-

Bikes owned: RF600RV - 1998, NSR125R - 2001, GSX600F - 1998, Vespa - 2008 (won it! not sure what model?!)

[temeluchus]

That can be the danger of buying a clean looking bike. Just because they cleaned the thing doesnt mean they bothered to change the oil.
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Some shite cruiser. Now with guns and FREEDOM!

[Jinkz]

Probably in hindsight I should have dropped the oil out of it, I've got 5ltr I bought a few weeks back sat on the shelf.. It was stored over the winter quite a bit and only ridden 300 miles each year for the past 3-4 years. Maybe a clutch plate was stuck to another?
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- Jinkz-

Bikes owned: RF600RV - 1998, NSR125R - 2001, GSX600F - 1998, Vespa - 2008 (won it! not sure what model?!)

[Jinkz]

And so the fun continues.

I opened up the gearbox to have a check if any of the plates has smashed up inside, and nothing, it's all in tact, non of the teeth have snapped, nothing floating around inside, completely clean.

So I put it back together, started it, and there is like a flapping noise, which isn't constant, every 3-4 seconds, and I know this sounds weird but like a big palm leaf (i'm mad!).

So pulled the top off the engine again, reset the tensioner, and here's the big question. Rotated the engine backwards, and every 2nd turn (of about 20cm) there's a big bit of slack goes into the chain, making it really floppy at the top, but rotating it forwards (clockwise) it's completely taught. Would this have an impact when it's rotating? I know there's a lot of engine rattle with all the combustion going on etc but would it really make a difference?

One thing to note too, is I held the clutch in, and it still makes the flapping noise, which was making me again thing it's gearbox clutch related, but they seem fine?

Whats the thoughts now, and thank you everyone so far with this, I really do appreciate the comments!
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- Jinkz-

Bikes owned: RF600RV - 1998, NSR125R - 2001, GSX600F - 1998, Vespa - 2008 (won it! not sure what model?!)

[serlant]

Not 100% but i think power output goes engine > clutch > gearbox> wheel, so if you pull the clutch in and it doesn't stop, you can rule the gearbox out as nothing in it will be moving?

[Jinkz]

I think you might be right. I've checked over visually the teeth on all 3 'cogs?' in the engine and non of them are broken... i'm becoming more stumped the more I look into it.

I've only taken out the cage with the gears in so far, do you think I should investigate further and take the whole unit out?
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- Jinkz-

Bikes owned: RF600RV - 1998, NSR125R - 2001, GSX600F - 1998, Vespa - 2008 (won it! not sure what model?!)

[Jinkz]

In the gearbox too, clutch plates 1 and 2 had what seemed to be machined off teeth, two on each play opposite each other, is this normal?

This sounds very familiar!!!

https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=127213&view=next
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- Jinkz-

Bikes owned: RF600RV - 1998, NSR125R - 2001, GSX600F - 1998, Vespa - 2008 (won it! not sure what model?!)