Kids on the back

billy whizz · Scooby Slapper Joined: 21 Apr 2004 Karma :

I'm sure most of you who watch the news were aware of the tragedy that happened near me last month. A ten year old boy was killed when the bike he was riding pillion on was in collision with a car travelling in the opposite direction. Whilst no blame for the accident has been directed at the rider as yet his young pillion was wearing an ill fitting adults crash helmet. Worse still his parents were not aware he was even on the back of the bike, this was being ridden by a friend of the childs father!
The childs parents have now brought together a petition containing 3000 signatures to lobby the government to make it illegal to carry any one under the age of 16 as pillion. Whilst as a father i have the deepest sympathy for their loss i feel that this petition if sucessful will rob me as a parent the right to decide whether or not to carry my own children as pillion passengers. My oldest son who is 15 loves riding on the back as does my 13 year old daughter.
The point is i was wondering on all of your point of views, bearing in mind the vast cross section of riders on here. So what do you think am i right or wrong, should i be able to decide how my children travel?
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McJamweasel · BCF Junkie Joined: 22 Mar 2002 Karma :

I think the current law is fine. As long as they can sit on the machine properly and have a properly fitting lid and other gear i don't see the problem.
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Syfoon · TRUCK!!! Joined: 29 Apr 2003 Karma :

I agree with Jammy.

As long as they can fit on the bike properly and have kit that fits as it should, they should be legal.
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Not here...

hellkat · Super Spammer Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

They wouldn't like it if it was applied to cars, would they?
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map · Mr Calendar Joined: 14 Jun 2004 Karma :

Just got a load of gear for them so kids can ride pillion. While I have sympathy I think sweeping measures taring everyone the same is wrong. I don't think anything like this is needed. However, if backed into a corner I probably would support something like only taking your own children as pillion or with written consent from parents (two kids, I can only ride one bike).

Ste · Not Work Safe Joined: 01 Sep 2002 Karma :

The law should be kept the way it was, and in that situation I'm surprised the police are not doing anything as I don't believe you're just allowed to take someones child (be it a friend or not) and take them on the back of your bike. Even worse by the fact the child did not have a helmet which fitted correctly (as a helmet which does not fit well can just twist round and hurt your neck) and I doubt that he had the child wearing any form of protective clothing. Thumbs Down

Believe that the law is basically that they have to be able reach the pillion foot pegs and hold on okay which makes sense (T.C. or someone else who knows more about this will probably give us the full legal position on children pillions) is 100% adequete and they wouldn't like it if someone tried to get the government to ban children being taken in cars now would they! Sure that a lot more children have been killed or injured in cars than they have on bikes so ban taking children in cars! Parents (or the rider) I am sure are fully aware of the potential risks which is why they are meant to at least have a helmet that fits and I'm sure that any parent taking their child on the back of a bike would want this and want them to have protective clothing as well so there is no big problem with it.

People should be allowed freedom and to make their own choices as to what they want to do. If someone wants to do something then they should be allowed, and I'm sure that no parent is going to put their child into any badly dangerous situations on the back of the bike and I'm sure that they won't do it at all if the child doesn't want to.

Kickstart · The Oracle Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :

Hi

Think the current rules are pretty much OK.

However a few press quotes about this incident:-

AzA · Nitrous Nuisance Joined: 13 Jul 2004 Karma :

Well if you want to carry anyone pillion under the age of 16 then you should provide them with the best fitting safety gear as possible and over the age of 16 its up to them what they wear aslong as they do have a fitting helmet.

Car drivers wouldnt be happy if under 16s wernt allowed in cars because of accidents.
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map · Mr Calendar Joined: 14 Jun 2004 Karma :

Looks like getting nasty with questions in parliament and quoting accident statistics (lies, damn lies and statistics - hey I'll prove black is white and get run over on the next zebra crossing Evil or Very Mad

- rant over).

Wrong to target one group over a tragic accident. It's like dealing with the symptom rather than the cause. Wasn't it said the rider wasn't at fault, therefore doesn't it point to the fault of the car driver. So using the same logic why not a petition to ban cars!

nc30 chick · Traffic Copper Joined: 13 Jul 2004 Karma :

This was a tragic accident and my deepest sympathies goes to the family. But i do not beleive that banning under 16's will make any difference, you can be killed on a motorbike whatever age you are, just as you can in a car. Under 16's are no more of a liability. However i do agree that it should be made compulsary for any rider or pillion to wear the correct gear. I cant beleive my eyes sometimes when i see a rider fully kitted out and a child jumps on the back wearing trainers and a tracky bottoms, where is the sense!
My daughter is 7 and she wants to ride pillion, i have said that she will have to wait until next year and she will be fully kitted out before she goes anywhere.
If under 16's are banned from going pillion how about crossing the road, riding passenger in a car? they are just as hazardous.

map · Mr Calendar Joined: 14 Jun 2004 Karma :

nc30 chick · Traffic Copper Joined: 13 Jul 2004 Karma :

There are quite a few childrens motorbike shops (mainly on line) now which you can trade in their leathers for a bigger size, much cheaper way of doing it i think.

byke95 · World Chat Champion Joined: 25 Mar 2004 Karma :

I can't see this petition going anywhere!

As one letter in Kickstart's post suggests - it is completely stupid to ban kids under 16 from getting on a bike as it has no scientific rigor. Smoking is dangerous and therefore kids aren't allowed to do it, sex can be abusive to they can't (*cough*) do that until they're 16 either; but to create legislation off the back of one incident under the assumption that it is dangerous is absolutely stupid!

And 3000 signatures is hardly public opinion - especially when is most likely from people who this legislation would have no effect.

Just when you thought you've seen all the stupidity possible, some hurt/naive person does something to prove me wrong!

However - I don't want to assume that the parents are crap, but why did they not know were their son was, I mean it wasn't some accident with a mate on a 50cc, it was a friend of the dads!

Annabella · Like a person, only smaller Joined: 03 Feb 2002 Karma :

Deepest sympathies to the family, it really is a tragic accident, and one likely to have been caused by irresponsible riding.

However, I fear, that however old the pillion had been in this accident, they would have suffered injuries (they may not have proved fatal for an adult, but certainly detremental). It is the physical size and strength of a child that should determine whether they are suitable to ride on the back of a bike - not their age.

It is the parents' prerogative to allow their child to participate in dangerous activities (of any kind, be it cycling, climbing, swimming, outdoor activities etc), and their responsibility to ensure that this is made as safe as possible (in this instance, sufficient fitting protective gear).
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Major_Grooves · The Doctor Joined: 10 May 2002 Karma :

I'm quite sure the BMF etc could organise a much bigger petition opposing the other petition.
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map · Mr Calendar Joined: 14 Jun 2004 Karma :

Frost · World Chat Champion Joined: 26 May 2004 Karma :

*Deep breath*

I don’t think its suggesting that the Childs size or age is what caused the crash, but rather that bikers are evil death-traps and that children should not be allowed on them either as a rider or on the back.

If you ask me this is just another "Oh god! Think of the children! Won’t somebody think of the children! Mad

" kind of situation, where by something reasonable gets demonised by a few overprotective housewives who have nothing better to do with their time than protest or campaign about something.

In truth bikes ARE dangerous, mainly because of the ignorance of other road users. Encouraging people to be more bike aware, and asking rider to try to be more responsible with someone on the back is what needs to be done?

Big Pete · Spanner Monkey Joined: 18 Jul 2004 Karma :

I`m with the Frosted one on this particular case.

Keep the Nanny state out! Rolling Eyes

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byke95 · World Chat Champion Joined: 25 Mar 2004 Karma :

Shade_BW · I'm better than you Joined: 13 Jul 2004 Karma :

Not to be grisly, but does anyone know what the kid died of?

The ill fitting helmet may not even have been a consideration if his neck was broken etc.

I am writing to my MP via www.faxyourmp.com to tell him I oppose the questions being raised in the house.

This is a knee jerk reaction by parents who feel guilty about losing their son, it has not been carefully weighed and measured.

As some of you know,I go to rallies regularly. Freinds and strangers alike turn up with kids on the back, and shock horror, manage to get them home again too. How do they do it, in the face of such danger??

Shade
Over reacting.

Shade_BW · I'm better than you Joined: 13 Jul 2004 Karma :

Dear Rt Hon Andrew Mackay,

I am writing to you concerning questions being raised in the House that worry me. Eastbourne MP Nigel Waterson is raising questions that have arisen over a tragedy in his constituency, that can only be described as knee-jerk, reactionary, and over the top.

After a recent accident that resulted in the death of a child, a campaign has arisen to lobby parliament to ban anyone under the age of 16 from riding pillion on a motorcycle. I am against this.

In the accident in question, the rider was not at fault, other than by not ensuring his charge had a properly fitting safety helmet.

In pursuit of my hobby as a biker, and attending many rallies, I see children come and go on the back of motorcycles up and down the country, without death or injury, on a weekly basis.

As tragic as this accident was, it is not enough, in my opinion, to force through legislation.

Regards

McJamweasel · BCF Junkie Joined: 22 Mar 2002 Karma :

Zoink.

Thats that letter stolen and forwarded.
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map · Mr Calendar Joined: 14 Jun 2004 Karma :

Major_Grooves · The Doctor Joined: 10 May 2002 Karma :

Shade_BW · I'm better than you Joined: 13 Jul 2004 Karma :

MP's do not like standard letters, they tend to chuck them in the bin (read the FAQ on the site).

As many of you live close to each other, please do not all just copy the letter and send it. Rephrase it in your own words.

I use this site every now and again, it's quite nice to get letters from your MP on House of Commons stationery.

So the next time I ask you lot what your doing about something.... it's cause I get of my arse and do things about stuff that affects me.

Shade
Activist.