Carburated vs Fuel Injection?

[jonnyboy]

Hi
Looking at upgrading my bike soon and I'm still fairly new to bikes so if the answers are obvious I apologise, but - what are the advatages / disadvantages of carbs vs fuel injection? The reason I'm asking is it might inform my decision about what bike to buy. My current bike is carburated and messing about with the choke irritates me at times. Ive had a look on google but a lot of the info is either too technical for me or relates to cars not bikes. Main things i'm interested in are maintenance and reliability. Thanks in advance!

[Kickstart]

Hi

Carbs work fine. For years with the crude injection systems used on cars one of the first things to do when trying for more performance was to dump the fuel injection and fit carbs. Carbs are cheap (to the bike makers) and easily fettled by anyone (OK, they might make a pigs ear of it).

However injection systems are simpler in a lot of ways. Simpler for the rider to operate. While you might have a fast idle lever (like a choke), on its own it won't richen the mixture so no chance of coking the plugs up leaving the choke on.

Maintenance wise the fuel injection is probably simpler. Both should be balanced occasionally. Both have filters that should be changed occasionally. Most bikes have CV carbs where the diaphragms can wear and puncture.

Down side with fuel injection is that one small fault is probably more likely to make the bike unrideable. Also working out what the fault is with injection might be more difficult (on the other hand it might have a self diagnosis system to make it easier to find the fault).

Not sure that actually helps as there are a lot of different injection systems and carb around, and so plenty of individual differences.

All the best

Keith
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[hmmmnz]

im a spark but i'd still rather rely on carbs,
you can just always always make it home with carbs, when fi goes wrong.... it really goes wrong,
its almost never the mechanical parts at fault, so generally not user servicable,

but on the plus side with fi,
its easily tunable, its pretty reliable, and normally requires no maintance,
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[CaNsA]

Carbs have soul.

[ollieholt]

you can do nice backfires with carbs and a kill switch

fuel economy is much better with fuel injection IMHO, some earlier systems are very notchy and rough low down the rev range. carbs tend to give a smoother output then older injection models.

it all depends on what your buying i suppose.

the choke is irritating you? is it set up right? mine does the job perfectly.
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[Mr Hammers]

I've found in my limited injection experience that they're more reliable than carbs, but I much prefer the look of carbs on an engine and am always fascinated with their workings.

As an example, I have an Italjet that has a carb problem, I've got a KLX not running properly which I'm sure is the carb, and whenever I've had a problem on the Bandit, it's always been....you guessed it...the carbs.

But given the choice, I'd *still* go for carbs over injection. As CaNsA says, they have soul.
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[chris-red]

I've found carb's to be smoother but more of a pain to work with, I don;t think I have ever known an injector to fail. Plus it is easier to tune injectors. I'd go with injector for reliability and simplicy (from the users POV)
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[D O G]

I'd go for FI too, less to go wrong in my mind, especially on the more recent systems after years of development, easier to tune, more flexible (IMO) and smoother than carbs too.

Suspect better consumption than carbs also.

[jonnyboy]

thanks for all the info. on one hand, i have very little time for maintenance or trying to fix things myself, so FI would seem logical, but on the other the bikes i like within my budget are carburated ( i think) - im looking at thundercats (98-00), zx6r (98-00) and zx9 (97-98). i cant afford a decent vfr800 or sprint st 955i unfortunately! the only FI 600 - 1000cc sports tourer i can find for less than £1.5k is a triumph tt600 which wouldnt be my natural first choice. my old teapot has put me off suzukis which limits the choice.

[mistergixer]

I went from a carbed SRAD to a FI'd K5 750, here's what i noticed:

K5 was far easier to start, but didn't do backfires.

SRAD was a bitch to start, especially in cold/damp conditions, but did ORSUM backfires.

Personally, i'd pick the FI'd bike, as i needed to start the engine more than i needed to do backfires.
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[stevekingchef]

hi

theres not too many f.i bikes that fit into your needs,it seems you had trouble with your carbs!!
f.i is easier to play around with if you buy a power commander or tune boy,

hopefully you got my pm i sent im not sure if they are sending via my mob.im on my laptop now

steve

[evoboy]

[Mrs Vale46]

Carbs are more fun to play with! And they arent as difficult as people make out.

[jonnyboy]

thanks steve, ive replied to your pm. appreciate all the comments about carbs having more soul etc but my problem is i dont have any spare time to play around with a bike, i only just get away with lubing my chain once a week! i need something i can just jump on and start easily that will get me to work and back every day. i borrowed a sprint st for a while and the convenience of not worrying about the carbs and choke working properly (admittedly i was comparing it to my old gsxf!) was very appealing. a quick search on the net though tells me i'll struggle to get a fuel injected bike min. 600cc for less than £1500. so might need to get a carburated bike after all!!!!

[D O G]

I wouldn't let the fact it had carbs put me off tbh - FI would be preferable, but not essential.

[Benson_JV]

In my limited experience it seems I prefer FI in lower CC bikes (125) whereas anything above I prefer carbs. Just my feelings.
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[woodyfjr]

Carbs arnt that bad there like everything else they need attention now & then, I would prefer carbs on the FJR but the EU regs makes it impossible.
Fuel economy FJR av 50mpg old FJ12 48mpg so not much in it

When an FI system goes wrong you'll wish you had carbs as FI can cost a fortune when it goes wrong and you cant limp home.

I had a problem with the FJR it turned out to be the FI system needed at lest 12.5v just to operate (duff battery 12.4v) where as a carbed bike would have still got me home.

As for which bike to buy what about a Divvy 6 or 9 both easy to work on air cooled and cheap buy and the 9 has a shaft.

If its one of the bikes you listed I'd have a cat a very good bike.
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[the grim reaper]

Carbs are relatively easy to understand and once you do that you're most of the way there to being able to service them yourself. FI was introduced to reduce emissions, primarily, as well as simplifying what's under the bonnet/tank.

It's easier to fine tune FI to a new exhaust, although you are looking at the extra expense of a power commander or similar. Carbs you can re-jet and change needles but they're not as infinitely tuneable.

Either work fine, don't concern yourself with it too much.

Cheers

Grim
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[neil.]

In my experience, my YBR is the carbed version, I've put 35'000 miles on it, riding all year round over the last 3 years. Never once had issues with it failing to start or carb icing (the carb has a heating element built in, which most modern carbs have) etc, even in the recent really cold weather we've had. In fact, it's been very reliable and the engine has always ran smoothly.

The only thing that happened was the screws holding the float bowl rattled loose over time so I was leaking fuel. Fixed with a bit of blue Locktite and spring washers, which should prevent that happening again. I personally like having a component that I can repair/diagnose problems with and fix cheaply rather than a computer controlled system that is expensive to fix and not 'user' serviceable. When I reassembled it, I was surprised to notice it was very clean inside, probably because I use the bike nearly every day for long journeys. No fuel pump to go wrong (just a hand operated, gravity fed tap) etc.

[weasley]

I have a 13 year old Thundercat and the carbs have never caused a second of problem. In fact when I bought it 8 years ago it had been sat in a garage for 12 months and not started - you hear all sorts of stories of fouled carbs, stale fuel and the like but once the battery was charged it fired and ran straight away and has done ever since. Yes, you have to balance the choke and throttle to start it but it has never not started and still returns over 50 mpg when needed.

I once rode a CBF1000 and I found the off-on throttle transition really jerky - the Cat will react very progressively to the tiniest throttle input.
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[Alex A]

Carbs are a pain in the ass when they play up, but they're typically much better at delivering smooth fuelling than injectors (especially at low RPM).

Then again, many newer FI systems are superb. And you can usually make them better with a power commander. Which is much easier than rejetting carbs (though not necessarily cheaper). They're also more consistent and reliable IME.

I'd take a decent FI system over carbs any day.
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[Teflon-Mike]

Carburettors & Fuel injection do the same job. They mix petrol & Air in the proportion needed to make a 'charge' that will burn in the engine. Nothing particularly mystical about either system, in the often misguided belief that they are the key to phenominal extra power or to unlimited ecconomy... they are simply a fancy measuring & mixing system.

Carburettors are an 'analogue' system, normally working on air-speeds and pressure differences. fuel Injection is a digital system, controlled by a micro-processor, worked from electro-mechanical sensors.

Difference is a bit like, old fasioned vynal records, to CD or MP3.

Vynal, with a continually varying 'signa' gives a 'perfect' reproduction of whats put on the plastic. Digital, takes a 'sample' of the original, and notates it, then reproduices the 'average' of the sample. Its not a 'real' reproduction, but a synthesised one.

For a hi-fi buff, vynal is king, becouse it has a greater dynamic range of reproduced sound, more colour and texture in what comes out the speakers, where digital is more 'clinical', but easier to use, and unlike records that wear out and get scratched, Digital either works or it dont!

I like carbs, but apreciate EFi. I wouldn't choose a bike based on the carburation system.

It makes little odds and theres far more important stuff to consider.
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