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wiring diagram help

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Alex_
Two Stroke Sniffer



Joined: 30 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: 12:06 - 07 Feb 2011    Post subject: wiring diagram help Reply with quote

hi im not too clued up on wiring diagrams, im trying to make up one for a kart, minus lights etc

heres my made up one, and original

https://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d129/ll_sarah_ll/wiringloom.jpg
https://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d129/ll_sarah_ll/C90.jpg

right, all i want is this to be able to run, no lights or that. so have i done this right? also im not too sure how to put an on/off switch to this.

thanks for any help, alex
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hmmmnz
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PostPosted: 12:17 - 07 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

you dont need half that stuff,
no battery, no rectifier,
just the ignition coil in the stator(points part) the points
the coil, spark plug an a kill switch,

like this
https://www.cmsnl.com/classic-honda-fansite/honda_wiring_diagrams/QA50.jpg
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Alex_
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PostPosted: 12:51 - 07 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

i need a battery as its a c90 6 volt????and i havent got any black wires coming from it mate.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 13:08 - 07 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, that's pretty much it.

The switch is a simple, 2-position on-off switch where it says "combination switch". Make for on, break for off.

You might want to keep a neutral light? Hand for both knowing you're in neutral and for telling you the ignition is on.

I redid them a bit neater for you.
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 13:12 - 07 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmmmnz wrote:
you dont need half that stuff,
no battery, no rectifier,
just the ignition coil in the stator(points part) the points
the coil, spark plug an a kill switch,


Nah, that one needs the battery. No internal connection from the stator to the points. The coil is powered up off the battery and breaks down via the points.

EDIT: Actually, that's not strictly true. The circuit will self-excite. The battery is there to act as a voltage regulator.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Alex_
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PostPosted: 13:54 - 07 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for that mate Smile thats a bit easier to read lol, yeah i'd may as well add the light, could i use any light really?

thanks
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Alex_
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PostPosted: 14:00 - 07 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

like this do?

https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MG-MGB-Ignition-Warning-Light-silver-rim-/350408676067?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5195fc12e3

nothing fancy Smile
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 14:10 - 07 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aye, that'd do the trick. Or an LED even.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Alex_
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PostPosted: 17:45 - 07 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

is there any way way to tell which colour wire goes where on the rectifier? is it a case of if it sparks its right???

cheers again
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 18:56 - 07 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex_ wrote:
is there any way way to tell which colour wire goes where on the rectifier? is it a case of if it sparks its right???

cheers again


The wiring diagram you posted suggests it should really have three flying wires coming off it which would be the correct colours as shown on that diagram.

If it doesn't. It should be possible to work it out using a battery and bulb.

If there are no flying wires attached to the rectifier, a picture of what you have would be handy.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Alex_
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PostPosted: 19:33 - 07 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

im not too sure mate, heres the picture of what i have. i have no idea if its right or not

https://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d129/ll_sarah_ll/rectifier.jpg

thanks
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 22:40 - 07 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok. I think that's a pattern replacement one. Honda usually use orange for left hand flasher wiring.

It doesn't matter which way round the two "coil" wires are, it does matter which way round the live and earth are.

Red to battery positive, Green to earth (or battery negative), yellow to yellow, orange to pink.

On the subject of earths. Remember you need to have the battery negative connected to a metal part of the engine or you'll get no spark.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Alex_
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PostPosted: 23:06 - 07 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah mate ive got a temporary earth for testing on the battery -

Hopefully I'll get the coil tomorrow and be able to get started with things Smile

Thanks for all the help Smile
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tahrey
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PostPosted: 23:25 - 07 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
Aye, that'd do the trick. Or an LED even.


With a resistor on it, right?
I think even 6v (or 7-ish whilst charging?) would still fry it. They need 3~5v don't they?
Unless of course you've done it without and it works. I remember jamming LEDs into the DC outputs of the electrical work boards at school but I can't remember what voltage they popped at. (Except for that one time some tool got one with extra long legs and shorted it across the live and neutral in an old-style unguarded 230V socket of course)
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 02:00 - 08 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

tahrey wrote:

With a resistor on it, right?
I think even 6v (or 7-ish whilst charging?) would still fry it. They need 3~5v don't they?
Unless of course you've done it without and it works. I remember jamming LEDs into the DC outputs of the electrical work boards at school but I can't remember what voltage they popped at. (Except for that one time some tool got one with extra long legs and shorted it across the live and neutral in an old-style unguarded 230V socket of course)


Yes. Size of resistor depends on the rating of the LED. Simple to work out.
An LED draws 20mA so: (voltage supplied - voltage required) /0.02 = Resistor size in ohms.

So say it was a 3.5v LED. (7-3.5)/0.02 = 175 ohm. So use a 180 ohm for safety or a 200 ohm for super safe but slightly dim.

Or use a flashing LED which will run on between 3 and 14v quite happily with no resistor.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Alex_
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PostPosted: 18:20 - 09 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

update on this

when i kick it over im getting a not bad spark off it, but other times im getting nothing. i have put a light on it but ive only just noticed that its a 12v light(a very small light) very dimm

i had charged this the other day but i also gave it a few ours charge today

what would cause this?

my earth i have are.

white wire from generator earthed to engine
engine earthed
battery earthed

am i doing anything wrong here???? thanks
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tahrey
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PostPosted: 19:34 - 09 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:

Or use a flashing LED which will run on between 3 and 14v quite happily with no resistor.


Interesting ... is that why they get used on pushbikes a lot? Cheap construction but keeps running over a wide range of battery voltage until it finally drops too low?
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 21:03 - 09 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

DO NOT earth the white wire on the generator!

They aren't designed to run a headlight off the battery. That wire is for running the lights.

If you want a lighting system, you hook it up to the white wire on the alternator, it runs directly off that and only when the engine is running (A.C. power). You will need a total draw of no less than 29W hooked into that wire or it'll pop the bulbs. Much more than that and they'll be dim.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Alex_
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PostPosted: 00:17 - 10 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

no mate i dont want lights, i just thought it had to be earthed. what shall i do with it? tape it off?

when i say light,i mean the small ignition light u suggested, i think it may be draining the battery very quickly as it went from green-ish to slightly orange as if it was dying.

cheers
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 00:27 - 10 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex_ wrote:
no mate i dont want lights, i just thought it had to be earthed. what shall i do with it? tape it off?

when i say light,i mean the small ignition light u suggested, i think it may be draining the battery very quickly as it went from green-ish to slightly orange as if it was dying.

cheers


Yes blank it off, connect it to nothing. Earthing that wire is short circuiting half the alternator output. You'll fry the windings.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Alex_
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PostPosted: 00:39 - 10 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok hopefully havent caused any damage, so engine needs earthed, battery negative,does the coil need earthed also?? if so, do i bolt it to metal or run a wire from it?any more

hopefully ive missed something as ive tried more or less everything here, i have a multimeter if i need to do any checks

thanks
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 00:51 - 10 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex_ wrote:
ok hopefully havent caused any damage, so engine needs earthed, battery negative,does the coil need earthed also?? if so, do i bolt it to metal or run a wire from it?any more

hopefully ive missed something as ive tried more or less everything here, i have a multimeter if i need to do any checks

thanks


If it wasn't running, I doubt it would have generated enough power to damage anything. If the engine had fired up, you'd have been in trouble though.

The coil earths via the points which is what makes the spark. No seperate earth needed (or wanted).

If you've been getting a spark, it's broadly working, can't be far off. Having that white wire earthed wont have been helping matters.

I'd probably try it without the bulb in your neutral light for the time being, just in case that's causing your problem.

If it's an engine that's sat a while, it'd be worth giving the contact surfaces on the points a clean up with some emery paper (or a points file) and resetting the gap. You can set the timing later once it's producing a good spark.

Another thing to try. Turn the engine so the points are closed, turn the ignition on and seperate the points with something insulated (bit of plastic or wood). If a spark jumps the gap, there's a good chance you have a duff condenser.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Alex_
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PostPosted: 13:31 - 10 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been out again to try but no luck, how do I go about setting the timing on this engine? Also how long would u give the battery to charge? I charged it for about 5 hours, as it says to do in the instructions? Maybe longer? Cheers
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 15:09 - 10 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forget about the timing until you have a good, reliable spark.

It's usually a case of just set the gap and the timing should be close enough anyway.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Alex_
Two Stroke Sniffer



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PostPosted: 21:54 - 10 Feb 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tried to set the gap, should they be nearly closed?well I slackened the screws, put it the feeler gauge ( the lowest one I have is 0.5mm) and tightened them back up.. One is thicker than the other is that correct?

Thanks
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