Motorcycle road/track confidence + training.

[spetom]

Sorry if this has been discussed ad nauseam before.

I just looked at CaNsA's Free Bike Book PDF (thanks by the way), and its shown me even more just how much I need to review my riding practice in a big way even after so many years on 125s, now that I'm on a CB 500.

Can anyone recommend a good training school for bigger bikes, I do find I learn when I follow big bikes around now that I can keep up (but thats more to do with road attitude than actual riding skill & proficiency) but I'd really like some solid training for road and track that will boost my confidence and rapidly develop skills.

I'm not a speed junky what I'm really after is cornering skills and a solid ride. I'd like to achieve a level of biking that I have in skiing, I've never focused on speed when skiing but on a smooth, safe and excellent technique which eventually lead me to going very fast without thinking about it (and winning some amateur competitions in my younger age), again I never consciously chased after speed I just wanted excellent and safe skiing. So I now go damn fast as a standard but I'm fully in control and safe.

I'd like the same on a bike, I want to focus on a solid, safe and confident ride rather than being a speed junky, and I'm sure the speed will come with confidence.

I found a place on this forum near birmingham and/or london that I no longer can seem to find, they didn't do track days but instead trained you on the road for just what I'm talking about.

Does anyone happen to know the school I'm talking about? Can anyone recommend any schools instructions, track days etc.?

Would me much appreciated.

[clancy]

you can do an advanced riding test, available at a fair few riding schools around the country. that sounds like the sort of thing your after. it will bring your insurance down aswell ( you knwo the bit on insurance forms where they ask about any extra courses or trainging you have)

also look up things like vanashing points on youtube, thats the sort of thing they go over on advanced rider courses. look it up
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KLX 300r

[spetom]

I'm paying so little for insurance anyway £100, I tested out how much my insurance would go down with extra courses on the quotes, I get a reduction of £1!

I don't think it's advanced rider test (or any formal qualification) I'm after, I'm not confident they'll give me the training I'm after. Something more in between track training and road training, the school I can no longer seem to find on this forum was perfect for this, it was literally the kind of training I was looking for.

[clancy]

from what you described the advanced training sounds right, its not like normal training. its more safe riding at high speeds, perfect cornering and keeping the best line of sight and being aware. if you look it up on youtube youll see what i mean, worth looking incase that is what your after ( which i think it is)

you can get tutoring on racetracks i believe (someone correct me if im wrong) but i doubt thats what your after to be honest.

the advanced riding thing i think is your best bet, for smooth effortless riding at not flat out speeds
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KLX 300r

[0l0dom0l0]

I am after exactly the same, so if you do find something then let me know!

I think the most well known one is probably California Superbike School. You basically go for a day, and they teach you track skills with an ex superbike champion etc sometimes.

The only reason I haven't done it yet is because of the price. Its about £350 for the day I think so its really not cheap.

I did find some alternatives though. I went into one of my local garages and had a chat with one of the very lovely young ladies who works there. She recommended:

Darley Moore, Mick Boddice Trajc Training School
Ron Haslam School

I have yet to have a proper look into these as I said above. I will do over the next few weeks, and I want to try and get something booked for the summer.

Have a look into them. There was a couple of others as well but I can remember them of the top of my head.

Hope that Helps

EDIT:

Just check the CSS again. Its £400 for the day, plus £250 for bike hire, £35 for bike insurance, and another £40 for leather hire. That's a huge amount of money!

[spetom]

Will keep you posted. Yea did some reading about those schools. Haslam is apparently not serious, and while CSS is good apparently it's just not worth the money really very low value for money.

I'm in Belgium at the moment next to a perfect motorcycle circuit regretting that I don't have some better skills to make use of it.

It's a windy circuit of wide road that goes around the "Bois de la Cambre" with no lights and a higher speed limit in Brussels (check google). They actually close the road to race on it at certain times of the year.

[G]

I thought I'd replied to this, but seems not, sure I'd tried to at least.

Anyway - advanced training, IAM and ROSPA are both worth considering, but the way they work does vary depending on where you are in the country.

My local IAM group was pretty good - happy for you to ride realistically on delimited roads and had some pretty skilled/fast riders in there.

Most of this is based on the "Motorcycle Roadcraft" book - so getting hold of a copy is going to be an excellent start.

My local IAM group has a free first day, which is akin to bikesafe. You then have to pay £85 for the first year's membership which includes your 'test fee', after that it's £15. It's generally considered nice to at least buy your observer a cup of tee or something, if not cover their fuel possibly - though I never had one that accepted money for fuel.

Bikesafe is worth considering as an 'introduction' to the area.

Track riding is certainly good for putting road riding into perspective - scraping a knee at 120mph means suddenly corners taken at road speeds may not seems quite so worrying.

As you say, Ron Haslem is a bit of an 'experience' with not much track time. CSS is better. However, if you're confident enough, I'd just go and do a few trackdays first - maybe talk to someone that has done a bit on CSS, but I'd say it's better value for money to find which bits do need improving, before splashing out for CSS,.
For me I found their structure too rigid, however it does seem to work well for some.

[0l0dom0l0]

[G]

CSS you get five sessions if I remember (possibly six, but pretty sure it's five), Haslam three. CSS offers more and more intensive training including a separate 'skills' area in a bit of the car park somewhere.
Haslam does include the hire bike and other kit.

I'd just going and do a normal trackday. All bike trackdays (well all I've been to) have free instructors you can have for a session (or two if they're not inundated.

But there's plenty to learn yourself too.

For literary education on track riding "A twist of the wrist II" is the bible to go for.

[0l0dom0l0]

Okay thanks for the advice. I think I will just give a track day a go and see how I get on. Might look at something like the Haslam for an 18th present or similar.

Will see if I can get that book too.

Cheers

[spetom]

Christ, been out today on my 500 to practice on the public park/circuit near my place (minus a couple of pot holes) it really puts myself to shame.

After years of driving a 125 hard I can't tell you how much wind and confidence you lose after a spill.

I had a totally unexpected spill half a year ago, I was cornering quite tight and fast on a round about and hit diesel, saw it too late to recover, the bike went sliding off the round about followed by me sliding along with it, thank god the van in the other lane managed to stop in time.

Ever since then and now that I'm on a 500 I just can't seem to lean the bike over that much and I'm really over cautious.

After reading much literature I realise just how much knowledge and skill I'm lacking so decided to work on it.

Trouble is I don't know mine or the bikes limits, so I usually follow other bikers. Was trying to keep up with a big harley and what looked like a new 750-1000 big sports bike, I managed to keep up on the straight bits but as soon as I hit any bends and corners even the harley who was really leaning over went much much faster around than me after a few corners lost them in the distance. (The speed was in between 40-60mph around the park.)

I really think like you guys have said some advanced training and then some track days is what I need. Really would like to build some solid techniques and I'm not really progressing or lack the competence and confidence to do so by myself..

[Pernig]

Don't try and keep up with other people. It's a recipe for disaster.

I found my confidence grew a lot when I started riding for myself and not trying to keep up with the car/bike in front if you see what I mean. Oddly enough, this was when I'd been riding a smaller bike and then recently bought a 500.
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H100 Breaking for spares

[Ditto]

I'm pretty naf at cornering too. Only realized the other day when I went out for the first time in a while.

I think my main fear is being unsure how far I can lean the bike before it gives. Its not a sports bike, Bandit 6, and im running on some Maxxis Sports Touring tyres so don't know how far down I could go.

Think I will pick up a book though have heard a few recommendations. Which would anyone recommend from either;

Twist of the wrist,

Roadcraft Police riders handbook

Cheers
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CG 125 > Bandit 600 > CBR 600 FY > Street Triple R

[Rogerborg]

[spetom]

[0l0dom0l0]

Maybe your body positioning is causing the bike to lean to far?

I think you might be counter-Balancing. That's where your body is straight and the bike is leant right over.

When its next dry, go out and practise dropping your shoulder into the bend. You will find you don't need to lean as far, as all your weight is pulling the bike the way you want to turn. This might help builkd some confidence back.

Also remember it wasn't your fault you came off. You hit a patch of diesel you couldn't see so actually you have done nothing wrong.

[G]

[Dave McCool]

Whereabouts is it you're based? I seem to remember you saying you were abroad somewhere, is that a permanent thing?

What really helped me was having mates that had been riding for a while, they were brilliant at setting the pace for me, not mad quick but keeping their lines perfect and consistent, bringing their pace up gradually and therefore bringing mine up too. Is there noone around you that would be willing to help with this? Most bikers I know are usually more than happy to help someone in this sort of way. If you don't know any where you are, go find where they hang out, look a bit sad/desperate/lonely and hope they take pity on you!

Since then I've been able to do the same thing for a mate who had a fairly big off and shattered his confidence. Took about a month or so of gradually building up the trust between us on roads we both know for him to match my pace through the corners, and then it was just a case of gradually increasing the pace, getting rid of the negative association that he'd developed (and I'm sure you have too) with leaning the bike over a certain distance. Now the only problem is I can't shake the bastard off, have to be pretty much balls out late braking and early throttle to gain any ground on him, and the same goes for when he's leading!

I honestly find that the most important part of being quick and getting the bike over, but crucially being comfortable doing it, on the road (and the track too) is getting the right line and looking through the apex for your exit. Turning in later than feels comfortable and running a wider line while still remaining in your lane cuts out all the '50p'ing' and once you're cornering properly slowly, it's just a matter of building on that foundation! Without it you'll struggle to ever be comfortable riding even reasonably quickly.

Apologies for the slightly jumbled and rambling nature of this post, trying to get my thoughts down on my phone, in a dark van, fighting sleep after the week from hell isn't the most conducive set of circumstances to giving helpful advice!
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McGee - "When I go to the mall and see all the high school girls, I have to have DO NOT TOUCH THE GIRLS written on my hand. Every time I go to grope I see it and stop."
K7 GSXR750

[0l0dom0l0]

[spetom]

Thanks for the advice Dave, I'm usually around London, currently abroad in Belgium (so not too far).

I think what you've mentioned about following mates would be exactly what I needed but only after some basic training, I'm still not even countersteering and while I've done it once or twice I'm reluctant to do it at high speed owing to maybe pushing too hard and initiating a crazy turn.

I may consider a basic course. I found these guys:

https://www.doningtonpark.co.uk/

They do an advanced cornering course, or a half track half road course. Maybe just what I need to boost some confidence. Then doing exactly what you mentioned.

I'd like to eventually do CSS, but only in a year or more's time, when I've actually done some track days, have some confidence and am able to really capitalise on their course.

[rac3r]

Perhaps you are leaning but it's another aspect of your cornering that needs work?

Ideally you need someone to ride with you and observe maybe.

I was reading the FAQ on CSS website and it looks quite good but I wish it wasnt so expensive!!
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Bikes : 2006 CBR125R - 2004 Monster 620ie - 2004 ZX-6R B1H - 2005 Monster S2R 800 - 2011 Street Triple - 2009 Streetfighter 1098 - 2014 ZX-6R 636

[rac3r]

Just checked and the Haslam prices are much better and seem to include gear and bikes too but the course isn't as long

https://www.haslamraceschool.com/

Check in the FAQ section
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Bikes : 2006 CBR125R - 2004 Monster 620ie - 2004 ZX-6R B1H - 2005 Monster S2R 800 - 2011 Street Triple - 2009 Streetfighter 1098 - 2014 ZX-6R 636

[DrDonnyBrago]

[Dave McCool]

Whereabouts in London?

I'm only in Essex, not a million miles away, would be more than willing to go for a few rides when you're about? Bloody lovely roads around here too, or could even meet halfway?

Let me know if you're interested and I'll chuck you my number.
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McGee - "When I go to the mall and see all the high school girls, I have to have DO NOT TOUCH THE GIRLS written on my hand. Every time I go to grope I see it and stop."
K7 GSXR750

[rac3r]

There you go! You have someone to watch you ride
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Bikes : 2006 CBR125R - 2004 Monster 620ie - 2004 ZX-6R B1H - 2005 Monster S2R 800 - 2011 Street Triple - 2009 Streetfighter 1098 - 2014 ZX-6R 636