Learn with sidecar or solo?

[dandygallop]

Hi all. Newbie here.

I have dreamed of having a bike and sidecar since I was a little 'un, my Nan and Grandad have always had one and still get about in it now (he is 76, she is 79). I've never wanted to ride on 2 wheels.. I want to take up the whole road! And I have never wanted to drive a car (don't like being in boxes), but thought that the sidecar thang was out of my reach.

Then today, my mum's fella tells me he is willing to pay for me to do my Direct Access as an intensive course AND that if/when I pass, he will help me to get a sidecar outfit. This has gobsmacked me. Dreams coming true? Whatever next.. Denmark banning Marmite?

So anyway, I have been doing a bit of hunting about today for courses in my area (Cornwall - anyone have any recommendations?) and also have been trying to get a bit more info on the rules about sidecars. I know that they are a totally different ride to a solo bike, so my question is this.. Should I learn to ride on a sidecar outfit, seeing as this is what I am going to be riding full-time, or should I learn on 2 wheels and then relearn how to ride with a sidecar?

Thanks in advance,
DG

[Teflon-Mike]

How old are you?
You cant do DAS until you are over 21.
Modern motorcycle test is for Solo's.
You cannot take your test on an outfit, unless you are registered dissabled and the 'three wheeler' is to accomodate your dissability.
So if you want a bike licence, you have to train up on a Solo. Sorry.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[dandygallop]

Thanks for the prompt reply!

I am 35 next month, so a bit of a late bloomer . I don't mind learning on 2 wheels, just wasn't sure what the deal with it all was.

DG

[virus]

you will find that piloting an outfit is a massive difference from riding a solo. and not just the obvious dont lean around corners thing.

Generally you will find that the sidcar is unbraked, so applying the brakes hard will cause the outfit to turn right (sidecar keeps going) and under heavy acceleration it will turn left. Of course an experienced sidecar rider uses this to there advantages (powering through left handers etc) but you will find it quite unnerving at the start.

No as nerving as the amount of handlebar vibration and shake if you havent got a sidecar with leading link front end mind.


Cheers
John
____________________
own: 81 xs1100g...
owned: 85 rat CG (sold), 91 GS500e (stolen), 84 gsx400f (scrapped), 81 z250 (siezed, siezed, scrapped), 83 cb250rs (sold), 84 gpz750r ratfighter (killed) 84gpz400 (sold), '80 cb650 ratfighter (wrote off) 95gsx6/12f ratfighter (killed) 91 xj900 (sold)
stinkwheel Well I just had my hands up a pigs fanny. Which makes your concerns pale into insignificance.

[Teflon-Mike]

[dandygallop]

Many thanks for the replies and opinions.

My grandad used to ride a 'proper' bike. Had done for years. Then he and my nan had a bad smash.. he was uninjured, she broke her back. Thanks to some flippin' good doctors she ended up making a very good recovery, but lost the use of her left arm. My grandad didn't want a car (not wanting to be in a box runs in the family) and my nan wanted to be able to go out with my grandad on the bike, so the sidecar was the option for them. Like I said before, my grandad is 76 now and my nan 79, and they are still going.

My reasons for wanting one are slightly different. Some of it is for sentimental/nostalgia reasons, but the main reason is that I want to be able to transport my kids around. My hubby is the driver, I cannot and will not drive a car. He is due for a double knee replacement, which will put him out of action for a while. We live in the middle of woodland, miles from anywhere and I don't want to be stranded and/or have to rely on friends.

I know that having a sidecar isn't going to be the same as solo riding. I am under no illusion there.

[stinkwheel]

What sort of bike do you fancy as a chair tug and what sort of chair do you like?

You don't necessarily need to pass your test to ride a sidecar outfit. You can ride a combo with a power: weight ratio of up to 0.16 kiloWatt/kilogram on L-plates and a CBT (you'd have to do the CBT on a solo machine).

If you've never ridden either and a sidecar is what you want to ride, it might be better to just ride one from the get-go.

It bears virtually no resemblence to riding a solo bike other than the position of the controls anyway. Learning to ride a solo bike first might actually make things worse.

If you want to pass a test and ride a more powerful outfit though, you'll need to do it on a solo bike.

It's an odd calculation for the learner laws. A squire ST3 sidecar weighs 91kg. A CB500 weighs 180kg so at roughly 270kg for the outfit so at 0.16kw/kg you can have a bike with 43kw power output. A CB500 puts out 42 Kw.

So essentially, you can ride a full power CB500 with a moderately large chair attached on L-plates. You'd have to work it out for each bike/chair combo you wanted to ride though, hence my first question. The heavier the bike+chair, the more power you're allowed. You could also ride an Ural combo on L-plates.

I should add my customary disclaimer that sidecars are horrible, unstable, terrifying things to ride but people who have always ridden one seem to have less of a problem than people who are used to a solo bike.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[CaNsA]

What about a trike?

[dandygallop]

The dream is to have a Gemini. I could get the kids in there, plus some groceries. They are pretty weighty, so would need a hefty machine to tug it along, methinks.

Anyway, from all this reading, I know now I need to do it solo to pass the test, and I don't mind that. Who knows? Maybe I will love being on 2 wheels and the sidecar will be but a distant memory. If that happens, the kids can walk..

[stinkwheel]

[dandygallop]

[Teflon-Mike]

[stinkwheel]

[Rogerborg]

Thanks Mike and Mr wheel, that's fascinating stuff.

I can never remember, does the power-to-weight limit calculation take into account 'extras' like fuel, luggage and bullets?

https://www.blackletter.org/news/Ural-jump.jpg
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[virus]

[blurredman]

I'd get a trike. Then you wouldn't need a helmet.
____________________
CBT: 12/06/10, Theory: 22/09/10, Module 1: 09/11/10, Module 2: 19/01/11
Past: 1991 Honda CG125BR-J, 1992 (1980) Honda XL125S, 1996 Kawasaki GPZ500S, 1979 MZ TS150.
Current: 1973 MZ ES250/2 - 18k, 1979 Suzuki TS185ER - 10k, 1981 Honda CX500B - 91k, 1987 MZ ETZ250 (295cc) - 40k, 1989 MZ ETZ251 - 52k.

[dandygallop]

Thanks everyone. Love the tale Mike, thank you!!

I have been looking at trikes, but they ain't for me. I guess I just want to follow the family tradition.

I will keep you posted as to what happens. Solo riding is the way start and that's the route I'm going to take for my test, but I will ultimately get my hands on an outfit, preferably a Gemini.

DG

[Pete247]

[stinkwheel]

[blurredman]

[virus]