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Seized brake calipers?

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LordShaftesbu...
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PostPosted: 10:16 - 15 Jul 2011    Post subject: Seized brake calipers? Reply with quote
I usually only ride my ER-6n in the winter, hence it's always covered in crud and salt. I remember at the end of winter 09/10 I took it in for a service and was told afterwards that they had had to fix seized front brake calipers. I had noticed a drop in braking power but hadn't thought too much about it.

Now after riding it over winter 10/11, and it having sat outside since then, I'm riding it at the moment (till the Street Triple is fixed) and have noticed the same loss of braking power.

How would I go about checking whether or not the same seizing has happened? And if the calipers are seized, would just some WD40 fix it?
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P.
Red Rocket



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PostPosted: 10:27 - 15 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just take calipers off, strip and clean them.

Re-bleed and its all good Thumbs Up
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 10:32 - 15 Jul 2011    Post subject: Re: Seized brake calipers? Reply with quote
Doug97 wrote:
I usually only ride my ER-6n in the winter, hence it's always covered in crud and salt. I remember at the end of winter 09/10 I took it in for a service and was told afterwards that they had had to fix seized front brake calipers. I had noticed a drop in braking power but hadn't thought too much about it.

Now after riding it over winter 10/11, and it having sat outside since then, I'm riding it at the moment (till the Street Triple is fixed) and have noticed the same loss of braking power.

How would I go about checking whether or not the same seizing has happened? And if the calipers are seized, would just some WD40 fix it?



You need to buy somethings,

I can of brake cleaner (£5)
a 2 pack of toothbrushes (Tesco value 10p)
Silicon Grease (£??)
Copperslip (£??)
Take them off (one at a time) take the pads and clips out, pull the brake lever and watch the pistons in the caliper move. Make sure none of them come out too far. If not all your pistons are moving it is seized. The best way to free the seized one is hold the moving pistons in with you hand a squeeze the brake lever a fer times this should free it off.

The pistons will likely be covered in Shit, using the brake lever squeeze out all the pistons evenly until you can see clean metal.

*If you squeeze too much you will pop a piston out and have to bleed the brakes*

Once there are all out use the brake cleaner to blast off all the shit any stubborn muck will have to be shifted with the tooth brake. Use liberal amounts of brake cleaner.

Once all the pistons are clean apply the silicon grease to all the pistons then squeeze them back in so they are flush with the caliper This can be tricky with 4 piston calipers. Then put the pads etc back in using copperslip on the backs of the pads and on the retaining pin/any parts you need to remove the pads.

Then do the other one a nice easy satisfying job. Thumbs Up
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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 10:45 - 15 Jul 2011    Post subject: Re: Seized brake calipers? Reply with quote
Doug97 wrote:
I usually only ride my ER-6n in the winter, hence it's always covered in crud and salt. I remember at the end of winter 09/10 I took it in for a service and was told afterwards that they had had to fix seized front brake calipers. I had noticed a drop in braking power but hadn't thought too much about it.

Now after riding it over winter 10/11, and it having sat outside since then, I'm riding it at the moment (till the Street Triple is fixed) and have noticed the same loss of braking power.

How would I go about checking whether or not the same seizing has happened? And if the calipers are seized, would just some WD40 fix it?


After two winters and a bit of sitting around they would probably benefit a lot from a full strip and clean, do what Chris red suggested first though as this might work and is a lot less hassle.

A full strip would basically involve pumping out all of the pistons, draining the fluid and if you have opposed piston calipers, splitting them. You'd remove the seals and replace any knackered ones then clean out the dirt/corrosion behind them before reassembling/bleeding. If you were considering braided lines (you are probably not) then it would be the ideal time to fit them.


This isn't a hard job just a pain in the ass if you haven't bled brakes before, there are a few good guides knocking around so if just cleaning the pistons doesn't help then use a guide to strip them completely.

One thing to add to what chris said is that red rubber grease is sold specifically for the job of rebuilding brakes - search castrol red rubber grease on ebay Thumbs Up . Silicone grease can be found in plumbing shops if you did want it though.
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LordShaftesbu...
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PostPosted: 10:57 - 15 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks everyone.

OK, I'm going to come across as borderline retarded during this process, but I've barely ever done anything mechanical. I mean seriously, I've never even changed my own oil, and I don't even know where the spark plugs are.

I'll start with the easiest thing first, checking that it actually has seized. So I need to remove the brake pads and 'clips'. A couple of questions:

1. What clips?
2. How do I remove the brake pads?

If I get that sorted I can see if any pistons aren't moving (and then probably take it into a garage).

Thanks a lot! Thumbs Up Karma
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LordShaftesbu...
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PostPosted: 10:59 - 15 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
OMG GOLD BLOB

AT LAST, HOW LONG HAVE I BLOODY WAITED????

sorry Embarassed
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LordShaftesbu...
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PostPosted: 11:07 - 15 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm guessing I have to remove the brake from the brake disc first?

[EDIT]

OK does this video show a sensible demonstration? Because I think I could just about manage what he does (although knowing my luck all the screws will be seized and I'll strip the heads).

https://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to-replace-brake-pads-motorcycle-311652/

Step -1: Check I have all the right size allen keys etc., plus spares for when I break them.
Step 0: Remove brakes from brake discs.
Step 1: Remove legendary 'clips'
Step 2: Remove brake pads
Step 3: Squeeze brake lever and identify immobile pistons.

Do I have it right?

Last edited by LordShaftesbury on 11:12 - 15 Jul 2011; edited 1 time in total
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 11:11 - 15 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Doug97 wrote:
I'm guessing I have to remove the brake from the brake disc first?



Take it a garage.


I wouldn't advise someone who hasn't changed oil and doesn't know where the spark plugs are to start working on a braking system.

Where are you based? If you are near me, (Hornchurch Essex) I will happily go through it with you.
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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iooi
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PostPosted: 11:12 - 15 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Doug97 wrote:
Thanks everyone.

OK, I'm going to come across as borderline retarded during this process, but I've barely ever done anything mechanical. I mean seriously, I've never even changed my own oil, and I don't even know where the spark plugs are.


Thanks a lot! Thumbs Up Karma


Given what you say above Shocked I would see if you have any bikers near to you that could come round and help you..... Might cost you a couple of coffee's or beers, but will be cheaper than taking to the dealers.
Given that you ride it a lot in winter, I'm surprised that you are not having to clean them up every few weeks to keep them clean and working.
Brakes are not really something to mess with if you are not sure.

I would also make sure you have a G clamp or such. makes it a lot easier to push the pistons back in.
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P.
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PostPosted: 11:15 - 15 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Shocked


Put the tools down, walk backwards slowly... further...further Laughing

I'm going by BCF map that you are MILES up north.
I'm sure there is a few BCF'ers local that will show you how to do it... but the first ever job I did was change the oil on my bike...admittedly, 4 bikes in Laughing

If you have any doubt at all, do not do it, you do not want your braking system to have ANY issues whatsoever Thumbs Up
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LordShaftesbu...
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PostPosted: 11:19 - 15 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
iooi wrote:
Given that you ride it a lot in winter, I'm surprised that you are not having to clean them up every few weeks to keep them clean and working.
Brakes are not really something to mess with if you are not sure.


Hmm fair point. I slather it in ACF50 before every winter and don't touch it till after winter, when I pressure wash it. Never bothered doing anything else, although the seized calipers are the only problem I've had.

I have manged to install my heated grips, handgaurds, fly screen and changed broken clutch/brake levers, but I realise this simple stuff wouldn't even qualify as 'beginners'.

Admittedly the last time I tried to do something mechanical (changing brake lever) I ended up with a broken kneecap:
https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=212563&start=50
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LordShaftesbu...
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PostPosted: 11:24 - 15 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
I might have exaggerated a little when I said I didn't know where the spark plugs were ... I know they're in the cylinder head.

Just don't ask me to point to the cyclinder head!


joking joking Laughing Laughing
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



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PostPosted: 11:26 - 15 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
iooi wrote:
I'm surprised that you are not having to clean them up every few weeks to keep them clean and working.



Really? I only need to do mine a couple of times a year.
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 11:35 - 15 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lol, if you are near Cardiff/Newport I'll happily help you Thumbs Up .


If you do decide to do it then start on the rear brake as a practice, if you feck it up it can still be ridden to a garage. Your first bit of maintenance being the brake system might not be a great idea though, make an effort to do your own servicing for a year, spend the money you would have paid a garage on tools and a manual and you will learn a lot, save money and probably enjoy it a lot. There is something very satisfying about saving hundreds of pounds and spending time with your bike Thumbs Up .


Doing just what chris said with the help of a manual should be fine though, you are just pumping the pistons out and giving them a scrub.

Do you have a torque wrench?

Last edited by DrDonnyBrago on 11:38 - 15 Jul 2011; edited 1 time in total
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P.
Red Rocket



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PostPosted: 11:36 - 15 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Doug97 wrote:
Admittedly the last time I tried to do something mechanical (changing brake lever) I ended up with a broken kneecap


Was that the set of levers that you can adjust the length with a small allen key? If so did you sort it/claim for anything?
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LordShaftesbu...
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PostPosted: 12:35 - 15 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
##Paddy## wrote:

Was that the set of levers that you can adjust the length with a small allen key? If so did you sort it/claim for anything?

Yeah, them's the ones. It's sorted in that the Triumph is all fixed and back up and running. I didn't bother trying to claim from the Chinese seller, that wasn't going to get anywhere. I just couldn't face the hassle TBH.

DonnyBrago wrote:
Lol, if you are near Cardiff/Newport I'll happily help you Thumbs Up .
Doing just what chris said with the help of a manual should be fine though, you are just pumping the pistons out and giving them a scrub.

Do you have a torque wrench?

I live in Edinburgh but thanks for the offer mate. I don't have a torque wrench but I can get one. Is it required?

Is there all that much that can go wrong? I mean, that video makes it look simple ...
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iooi
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PostPosted: 14:44 - 15 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
chris-red wrote:
iooi wrote:
I'm surprised that you are not having to clean them up every few weeks to keep them clean and working.



Really? I only need to do mine a couple of times a year.


Must depend on the area/what you ride through.

But mine get well crapped up after a couple of weeks. So its a quick remove and clean the calipers from the inside. To ensure that the seals don't get crap forced behind them.
Having said that I never wash the bike over winter, as its bathed in AC 50.
Hve to say that Kawasaki pots seem to be better than Yamaha at resisting seal failure.
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P.
Red Rocket



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PostPosted: 14:47 - 15 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Doug97 wrote:
##Paddy## wrote:

Was that the set of levers that you can adjust the length with a small allen key? If so did you sort it/claim for anything?

Yeah, them's the ones. It's sorted in that the Triumph is all fixed and back up and running. I didn't bother trying to claim from the Chinese seller, that wasn't going to get anywhere. I just couldn't face the hassle TBH.


Was going to say, I got the same and got the UK sellers address.

Mine best not cause any stick... Laughing
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LordShaftesbu...
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PostPosted: 14:57 - 15 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just check that the pushrods seat the same depth into the holes as the old levers. Mine didn't, but instead of drilling the hole deeper, I just thought "it'll be fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine".
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



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PostPosted: 15:25 - 15 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
iooi wrote:



Must depend on the area/what you ride through.

But mine get well crapped up after a couple of weeks. So its a quick remove and clean the calipers from the inside. To ensure that the seals don't get crap forced behind them.
Having said that I never wash the bike over winter, as its bathed in AC 50.
Hve to say that Kawasaki pots seem to be better than Yamaha at resisting seal failure.


I ride all year round mainly into London down the A13, it is the filthiest road I have ever been on. I do about 40 miles a day.
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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TUG
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PostPosted: 18:08 - 15 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
It really isn't hard to do. Would you like me to do a write up for you?

I've cleaned loads of calipers over the years, and the only ones i've failed on is GSXR/ZXR Tokico six pot calipers... I don't know what it is but the just go spongey as fuck no matter what I do or try it never bleeds up right.

Anyway thats a very very sore subject for mechanics and owners a like.

1. What sort of caliper are they?
2. How many calipers?
3. How many pistons per caliper?

Give me that information and I'll write you a guide.
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