Modify or upgrade?

[T0MMY]

Following a session and conversation with an instructor at Silverstone the other week I'm thinking about either modifying my current track bike or upgrading to something a little more capable. I've currently got a ZX6R G2 which rides pretty well for what it is but is probably nowhere near the handling capabilties of the more modern sportsbikes. The brakes are fine for the job and I'm not fussed that it's way down on power compared to most of the bikes on track but I feel like I'm reaching the limits of the handling already. I can't decide whether it's better to throw some money at it and upgrade the suspension or just sell it and get something like a CBR600RR. I'd also need to get rearsets and raise the exhaust so it could get pretty expensive.

Everyone tells me there is a major step up in how focussed the more modern 600s but I've never ridden anything built in this millenium so I'm not sure how true that is Would my current bike with a brand new and well setup shock still be way behind an unmodified CBR600RR?
____________________
ZX6R + CBR600RR

[MarJay]

It'll be good enough until you're at the top level of the fast group. A suspension refresh probably wouldn't go amiss though.
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[T0MMY]

Thing is my lines are still not perfect (I've only done 5 trackdays and at 4 different tracks) so I can obviously get much much faster there but after following me round the instructor seemed to think that I couldn't really push it any harder in the corners which was a bit disappointing. Sort of made me feel like I can't really progress in terms of mid corner speed where I'm already grinding the pegs and the bike is really on the edge of grip. My lines will improve with experience no matter what bike I'm riding so that's not really the problem.
____________________
ZX6R + CBR600RR

[G]

Sorted suspension won't massively increase mid-corner grip unless it's really bad to start with. (Edit; it may cause the bike to be lower and ground out, but this is a different problem to running out of grip to my mind).
It may help more with grip going in to corners braking and coming out on the power, but to some degree you probably want that to be predictable and with good 'feel' rather than giving you amazing performance.

I think, either way I'd keep an eye out for good second hand deals.
Leave it a bit and there will be a good market on post-season race bikes, etc.
Or try and keep an eye out for some second hand rearsets (could you hang off more as it is?), shock and fork internals.
On that, I've got all three available for a zx9-E , but not sure if they will fit your bike (shock probably will) as got a feeling Kawasaki annoyingly did a few things slightly differently between the 6 and 9, despite them being pretty similar.

[MarkJ]

What track and how fast were you going with the instructor behind?

If it's really bottoming out you could give it some new springs and a rear shock. Maybe some higher rearsets if those ones are quite low. What tyres are you using and what does the rear tyre look like after a trackday, chewed up or nicely grained?

[T0MMY]

This was at Silverstone and I got a session with him very early in the day as I didn't know the lines at all. He basically said that there were many parts of the track where I hadn't got the right lines which he helped me with but that in the bits where I'd got to grips with the track I wouldn't want to be going any faster given the bike I was on. In terms of speed, I felt like I was going pretty slow as I was totally out of sorts due to not knowing the track but I would say I was in the upper third of the fast group maybe...hard to say as it's such a fast track and I was getting left for dead down the straights by nearly everything. Also, I don't have tyre warmers so by the end of the first lap all the bikes that do (90% at least it seems) are long gone whilst I get some heat into the rubber.

Here's a couple of videos. The first one was a restarted session due to a crash so everyone was on cold tyres and I stayed with the pack through the first lap for once...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8z6jJ8Ci68

This session I went out near the front and after a couple of faster guys passed me I had clear track so my last lap is probably about as quick as I was all day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d2oJLFPmXo

I kept confusing the two pit straights and taking the wrong line into the new one and also I had trouble getting gears sometimes as my gearbox doesn't seem to like the oil I put in it recently

As for body position, I perhaps could hang off a little more but not a lot I don't think. Found these pics of the day but I'm too scabby to buy them ...

https://www.peterwilemanphotography.com/main/index/detail/1614070

https://www.peterwilemanphotography.com/main/index/detail/1612753

Looks like my head could be lower although on the corners where ground cleaance becomes a real issue I think I do pull myself more towards the inside of the corner.
____________________
ZX6R + CBR600RR

[T0MMY]

Here's a photo from Rockingham too...seems like my head is still too high so maybe that is something I need to work on...
____________________
ZX6R + CBR600RR

[G]

Rockingham one doesn't look so bad, but hard to tell from the angles.
However, does look like you are hanging off decently.

If you're finding the power particularly irksome, I reckon you definitely want to make plans to get a more modern bike - however, you can still consider a few bits for current bike (even just some foot peg adapters) which you can hopefully sell on separately when you get rid of the bike.

[T0MMY]

I don't mind the lack of power really...the bike felt very slow at Silverstone where you spend a lot of time accelerating from 3 figure speeds but at most tracks it's fine. Only problem is you can't follow a faster rider to learn the lines as if he's the same or faster in the corners he's long gone by the end of the straight I'm more concerned about the handling.

Forgot to answer the question about the tyres...they're Racetecs (courtesy of Deano) and after a trackday they usually look pretty chewed up with lots of curled rubber at the edges. For some reason at Silverstone the rear looked less chewed and more grained but I think they're starting to harden up as they've done a lot of heat cycles now. They're more blue than usual this time if that means anything and they definitely feel less sticky to the touch than when I first got them.
____________________
ZX6R + CBR600RR

[MarJay]

I'd say try new tyres first, then if they don't help take them off and put the scrubs back on so you can use them on your new bike.

But I still reckon your bike has the potential to be better than you are. I'm inclined to think the instructor is talking nonsense anyway. Most trackday instructors appear to give poor or conflicting or misleading instruction anyway. One instructor gave me the sage piece of advice "Trust your tyres more".
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[G]

[MarJay]

[T0MMY]

I think the Racetecs at their best are as good as I'd ever need the tyres to be and good enough to be at the sharp end of the fast group. I think this set are starting to go off so I will need to replace them anyway soon but I think the weight, ground clearance and suspension of this bike are the bigger factors holding me back.

Obviously my poor lines are what make the biggest difference to lap times and these will improve as I start to learn the tracks but I just feel that I've plateaued a bit compared to the massive improvements in my riding and the higher corner speeds I was suddenly carrying between my first and second trackdays...8 weeks ago I'd never got my knee down (or even tried as I never had a set of leathers ). I felt like I was getting quicker and quicker and now I've sort of hit a brick wall but I guess that's what happens.
____________________
ZX6R + CBR600RR

[G]

Getting in to the fast group in five days (and managing to stay on ) isn't bad - but you do have to expect to start slowing down your rate of progress.

A lot of 'lines' is more track positioning - making sure you go right to the outside, then get your knee hanging over the kerb, then right out to the outside again.

I was quite impressed when I watched an onboard video I'd done at Rockingham that while my riding wasn't that fast, I was at least still getting decently close to the edges (ie the the side of the bike was hovering over the middle of the kerbing at the Apex.)

[MarkJ]

Well you're not hanging about in the corners so if it's acceleration on the straights you want then get a more powerful bike Getting on the power early and on the most efficient lines will definitely help you keep up with more powerful bikes that haven't done so well coming out of the corners, though.

I certainly improved a lot after my first few trackdays, but then progress seemed to tail off a fair bit. Nowadays it feels like I'm getting worse

[T0MMY]

[LordShaftesbu...]

I'd say get one of these, if only because they look like sex on two wheels.

https://www.bikechatforums.com/files/2011-triumph-daytona-675r-photo.jpg

[G]

Plenty of ways you can time yourself on the sly - video is one of the obvious ones.

And yes, when you're coming out of a corner and think "ohh shit, oh shit oh.... just made it!" then you know you've got the exit just right . (Actually, quite probably a little slow as that suggests you were probably still off the power, when you should have planned to be on the power earlier and kept on it because you were confident of your line .)

Even when you don't HAVE to get right to the outside, it's generally good practice to do so as the bike will be more relaxed so you can get on the power earlier - and just that you're getting used to taking the correct lines.

I haven't done a new track in years now , but even doing Cadwell earlier this year it did take me a couple of sessions to get reasonably close to the Apexes (for me, not compared to some other people there ).

I didn't find a big problem with visibility for most of the corners at Silverstone (as opposed to say Paddock Hill at either Brands Hatch or Lydden.)

[T0MMY]