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big bore kit 70cc

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shaunt6
Borekit Bruiser



Joined: 19 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: 22:27 - 19 Aug 2011    Post subject: big bore kit 70cc Reply with quote

just blew up my 50cc , has never been tunned , im looking to buy a big bore kit and not sure what one to get iv found a few big bore kits and im looking to spend about 200 - 250 on a decent big bore kit , which one would be the best for that money , bike is a derbi senda 2006 off-road
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0ddball
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PostPosted: 22:40 - 19 Aug 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get a 125
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shaunt6
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PostPosted: 22:48 - 19 Aug 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

i cant afford to get one yet :/
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Nope.
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PostPosted: 23:13 - 19 Aug 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

If thats your budget and your having to ask this then I really wouldnt bother. It'll only seize again or wreck the crank bearings or somthing. Not worth the time and money. Fit a new 50 barrel, run it in and sell it then put that £250 towards a 125.
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Lipsmoker
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PostPosted: 23:19 - 19 Aug 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not worth wasting the money

your willing to spend £200-250..

you can get a tatty 125 for abit more than that

a 70 kit will gain 10-15mph maybe
also will break twice as fast as your 50
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0ddball
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PostPosted: 23:29 - 19 Aug 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just sold a 125 with full tax and mot for £250. Granted it was a chinese bike but it would still be faster than a messed with 50.
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shaunt6
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PostPosted: 00:23 - 20 Aug 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

i might be able to get a cheap 125 but to insure it will be alot as im only 16 , and for a original 50 head and piston gaskets it like nearly up to 200 thats why i thourght shall i get a big bore kit
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temeluchus
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PostPosted: 01:14 - 20 Aug 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

125 wouldnt be legal for a 16 year old, but then again the 70cc kit wouldnt be either....
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Nope.
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PostPosted: 01:14 - 20 Aug 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

shaunt6 wrote:
i might be able to get a cheap 125 but to insure it will be alot as im only 16 , and for a original 50 head and piston gaskets it like nearly up to 200 thats why i thourght shall i get a big bore kit


You cant ride a 125 at 16. You have to be 17. Rolling Eyes

Seriously, get the standard bore. If you fit a 70 kit it will be no end of problems.
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shaunt6
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PostPosted: 20:57 - 20 Aug 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

im 17 in 1 month and it will take me ages to save up for a bigger bike and to insure a 125 at 17 its like 650 700 quid and my freind has had aa big bore kit since he brought it back in febuary and nothing has gone wrong with it and its a cm racing 74cc bbk
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Nope.
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PostPosted: 21:09 - 20 Aug 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

shaunt6 wrote:
im 17 in 1 month and it will take me ages to save up for a bigger bike and to insure a 125 at 17 its like 650 700 quid and my freind has had aa big bore kit since he brought it back in febuary and nothing has gone wrong with it and its a cm racing 74cc bbk


Please learn to use punctuation!

Its cheap to insure 125's, I dont know what youve been quoting for! Around £300 to insure a CG125 TPFT, £500 to insure a sports 125 (GPR, RS125, XTC 125) .

So your friend has had a 70 kit for a few months and thinks he knows everything about tuning two stroke engines? No. You came on here to ask a question and we gave you sensible structured answers. Your not hearing what you want to hear so your trying to argue the point.

Either accept what were saying and follow out advice, or go do what you want and then come back and cry in a couple months when you either seize your engine, snap your crank, cant get it to run or had your bike confiscated by the cops.
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shaunt6
Borekit Bruiser



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PostPosted: 21:14 - 20 Aug 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry mate
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 21:16 - 20 Aug 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

computid wrote:
shaunt6 wrote:
im 17 in 1 month and it will take me ages to save up for a bigger bike and to insure a 125 at 17 its like 650 700 quid and my freind has had aa big bore kit since he brought it back in febuary and nothing has gone wrong with it and its a cm racing 74cc bbk


Please learn to use punctuation!

It's cheap to insure 125s, I don't know what you've been quoting for! Around £300 to insure a CG125 TPFT, £500 to insure a sports 125 (GPR, RS125, XTC 125).

So your friend has had a 70 kit for a few months and thinks he knows everything about tuning two stroke engines? No. You came on here to ask a question and we gave you sensible structured answers. You're not hearing what you want to hear so you're trying to argue the point.

Either accept what we're saying and follow our advice, or go do what you want and then come back and (Two ands in a sentence) cry in a couple months when you either seize your engine, snap your crank, can't get it to run or had your bike confiscated by the cops.


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Nope.
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PostPosted: 21:28 - 20 Aug 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big_Ham wrote:
computid wrote:


Please learn to use punctuation!

It's cheap to insure 125s, I don't know what you've been quoting for! Around £300 to insure a CG125 TPFT, £500 to insure a sports 125 (GPR, RS125, XTC 125).

So your friend has had a 70 kit for a few months and thinks he knows everything about tuning two stroke engines? No. You came on here to ask a question and we gave you sensible structured answers. You're not hearing what you want to hear so you're trying to argue the point.

Either accept what we're saying and follow our advice, or go do what you want and then come back and (Two ands in a sentence) cry in a couple months when you either seize your engine, snap your crank, can't get it to run or had your bike confiscated by the cops.


EFA Thumbs Up Wink



I just knew this was going to happen! Laughing

At least its readable!
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Former: Derbi GP1 50, Sachs XTC 125, Suzuki GSXR 400 GK73A, Kawasaki ZX7R, Suzuki DR250, Yamaha RD350
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 21:30 - 20 Aug 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

computid wrote:

I just knew this was going to happen! Laughing

At least its readable!


D+, must try harder. Laughing
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Livefast123
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PostPosted: 21:39 - 20 Aug 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

As said, not really worth spending the money on a 70cc kit which is going to cost you more to buy, more to run and run the risk of you having your bike seized as you have no licence to ride it. It'll only give you 15 Mph extra and unless you know what your doing will take time and expense to set up.

A much better idea would be to put the bike back to standard, sell it when you are 17 then get a 125 which will be faster and far cheaper to run. I don't know what insurance sites you've been on but try 'The Bike Insurer'

Here are 2 kits on ebay depending on what year your bike is you'll have it back on the road for less than £100.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/APRILIA-RS-50-DERBI-SENDA-2006-BARREL-PISTON-KIT-/160623026615?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item2565e0e1b7

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DERBI-SENDA-50-UPTO-2006-GILERA-BARREL-PISTON-CYLINDER-/360352002102?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item53e6a73036
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 21:58 - 20 Aug 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

This again?

£250 is a ridiculous amount to spend to make a bike illegal for P(ed) license holders to ride. If you're going to ride a bike outwith the terms of your license, just get an SV650S. It's exactly as legal (or otherwise) as riding a 70cc bike on a ped license.

Or suck it up, part the ped out, and buy a 125 when you turn 17.
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shaunt6
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PostPosted: 23:07 - 20 Aug 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

okay cheers guys
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Dishdash
L Plate Warrior



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PostPosted: 01:42 - 20 Dec 2011    Post subject: ... Reply with quote

Seriously? the guy came on, asking which is the best 70cc kit. And you go into some lecture about how he should get a 125. then when it turns out he cant, you get all upset and moan at him? He asked a question, and then you moan about the question. Shocked
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 02:58 - 20 Dec 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

shaunt6 wrote:
im 17 in 1 month and it will take me ages to save up for a bigger bike and to insure a 125 at 17 its like 650 700 quid and my freind has had aa big bore kit since he brought it back in febuary and nothing has gone wrong with it and its a cm racing 74cc bbk


What worth is insurance that wont be honoured?

Try asking your insurance how much it would be to insure a 70cc Derbi Senda...

If its bigger than 50cc its not a moped.
If it can do more than 35mph its not a moped.

Needs Re-Registration, & VOSA inspection to be re-registered as a motorcycle; THEN you need to declare the 'modification' of your moped to make it a motorcycle to your insurance.

250 for a big bore kit; with inherent risk that will exponentially deminish reliability. Usually small ends, pistons and crank seals.

250+ for Vosa inspection

Gawd knows how much 'loading' on the insurance for the declared mods.

Does NOT make any kind of ecconomic sense.

Do it 'on the dodge'... dont declare it... soon as you are spotted using it; you may have a licence, but vehicle itself wont be legally insured; you will have obtained insurance by deception; so you can be done for insurance fraud as WELL as riding without valid insurance. Bike is also 'other than described on the registration'... ie its a motorbike, not a moped. Lack of valid insurance is grounds to sieze it; fact that its not in accordance with registration, grounds for it to be crushed.

Worth the risk?

Go for it.

BUT; 250 goes a long way to a 125 insurance policy, and given that if you do not get your licence on a 125 in the next 53 weeks, then you are likely to be stuck on a 125 for the next SEVEN YEARS, due to 3rd directive laws..... PERSONALLY rather than fucking around trying to mastermind some bit of criminal genius to get an extra couple couple of mph out of a moped, and save a few penies on an insurance policy not worth the paper its printed on...

I would be looking to put that 250 towards the price of theory/hazard, & Mods 1 & 2, and finding a bike to do them on by hook or by crook, and getting that licence in my pocket....

Will let you LEGALLY ride any size bike you like up to 33bhp, and at 19 years old, restriction will lapse and you will be able to ride any bike, any power...

fuck about with your fifty... you risk loosing what provisional entitlement you have, as well as the bike, and a shit load of money in fines... and NOT getting your tests done this year on a 125, you will NOT in a years time be able to test for anything bigger than a 125 'only' A1 licence; you'll possibly have to hold that for two years in order to qualify to test for A2, if you cant do it at 17, but either way, A2 testing will basically demand a DAS style course to train up on a 400+cc bike, up to 45bhp, which you will have to test on... which will give you a 45bhp restricted licence, for at least two years, when you may qualify to test DAS style, yet again on a 500+cc bike over 45bhp, to gain full unrestricted A. Though few schools are planning the investment to get a new 'A2 fleet' to offer courses, so IF you find one it WILL be expensive, AND to get a 'Full' licence YOU could have, this year, for a couple of hundred quid and a bit of thought and application in the right direction.... you'll have to wait until you are 24 to do DAS, or do two DAS courses to get there via A2...

SO!

back in your court....

You can spend your time and money fixing up a fancy fifty, that's never going to be anything but a fancy fifty...

and to ride legally is going to cost you WHEY more than a 125

or ride it 'illegally' hoping not to get caught and have the fuck fined out of you.

and, be stuck on L'plates, pretty much until the back end of never, in the teenage time-scale...

OR...

You can try and cash in the fifty for whatever you can recoup, and try and do something a little more useful:

a) get a 'cheap' read less fancy, 125...

(I suspect you have been getting quotes for stuff like TZR's, DT's NSR's or RS125's, that are in the same insurance group as some frigging 500's..... (My DT125 is actually 50% MORE a year to insure than my 750!) rather than something a little more mundane, like a CG125 or YBR, or even an EN, four stroke, that are about three groups lower and PROBABLY no more to insure than your 50...)

Put your sense of 'style' and aspirations for 'performance' to one side for a while and cut cloth to suit your means.

And use it to get tests done on, and get that 'Full' licence, this year that opens the door and puts you perhaps six years ahead of tits that cant be arsed or dont bother, and long term saves you thousands.

b) if funds too tight even for that; fuck owning a bike off altogether; put what you got into the tests, and use what you have to borrow a bike, or rent a bike to get THAT in your pocket.

Licence, once you have it, is valid till you are seventy.

Thats PLENTY of time to save up for something more your 'style' with as much performance as you can afford or handle....

And, 33bhp restrict? Actually. no great shakes; longer you take saving up, more of teh restriction period is lapsing.... rather then time to 3rd directive licence system, and weeks validity on your CBT cert ebbing away.....

Stop trying to beat the system, by breaking the rules, any idiot can do that, but very small, short term gain, EVEN if you 'get away with it'.... want to really beat the system? Beat them at thier own game and GET that licence they don't want you to have.

Fuck the bikes; bikes come and go, and life is long. You can have any number over the years; you only ever have ONE licence.

So what makes most sense? Big bore kit? A few extra illegal mph, or a licence that lets you LEGALLY have just about as much performance as you could ever want?
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hmmmnz
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PostPosted: 09:04 - 20 Dec 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

if it was me and i was 16 again,
i would tell all these guys to get fucked,
nothing like learning a lesson the hard way Very Happy
i'm double your age, and i'd still tell them to get fucked and chuck on the big bore kit Wink
but, i have a full licence and can afford to lose a few hundred quid,

as it stands, a standard 50cc kit is perhaps the best option,

Doppler do a good 50cc high compression kit with a nikasil barrel
and for big bore the polini kits are always pretty well finished
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 14:19 - 20 Dec 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmmmnz wrote:
if it was me and i was 16 again,
i would tell all these guys to get fucked,
nothing like learning a lesson the hard way Very Happy

If I was 16 Again....
No! NO! NO!!!
I don't think I could handle it!
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Dishdash
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PostPosted: 16:11 - 20 Dec 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

If he wants a 70 kit its pretty likely his bike is alreayd illegal just like 99% of all scooters on the road. You try going down an road at 50 when everyone else is doing 60-70 and you'll realise why he wants that extra 10-15 mph. I have never heard of anyone get done for having a de restricted 50. The cops tend to turn a blind eye because they know its un safe to be doing 30 mph.
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bikersupermot...
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PostPosted: 16:33 - 20 Dec 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

for sum of us theres sumthin fun about tuning up / over - engineering a small engine to get total max performance. like mental mods - u see em on utube.

ur eitha into it or not. if ur not u go buy a big bike - for the guys into it a big bike just not the same thing - it dont ansa the curiosity / wanting to get max out of a 50cc bike.

i used to hav the cbr1000rr afta loadsa sm's an it jus wasnt my thing. bought it new, 8 months lata i was bord wiv it an sold it.

back to sm's an got 3 now an hav way more fun wiv any of them than eva did wiv da blade.

so go for it shaunt - but get it insured rite so if sumthin does go wrong ur covered man.
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IanAl
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PostPosted: 18:02 - 20 Dec 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the 125 engine drops straight into the 50cc frame. Have been considering it with my Senda. Everyone I have spoken to that has fitted the 70cc big bore jit have had their engine blow up shortly after.
I have a lovely rebuilt 50cc engine that I'm open to offers on, new main bearings and seals, new piston, rings, little end bearing, water pump, head gasket, plug etc
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