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| Gruf2005 |
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Gruf2005
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Joined: 10 Oct 2011
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 Posted: 16:16 - 11 Oct 2011  Post subject: Suzkuki Marauder gz 125 Tweaking |
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 Hi there all I have recently purchased a 2002 model GZ 125.
It has 4k on the clock and is in pretty good condition so I figured I'd have a tinker with it...
So far I have replaced the sparkplug for the Iridium type and changed the front sprocket to a 16t.
There is a 40cm slash cut muffler on the way also a screen and Im thinking of modding the really restrictive air filter along with Jetting the carb.
Anyone round here done much modding of single cylinder 4 strokes and has advice or ideas??
So far the bike will top out about 55/60mph downhill in 5th, on the level its more like 50/55mph with no wind 45/50mph into wind.
Oh and Im 12 stone 5'6"
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Sometimes going fast isnt enough... SR 125, GSX 750 RR, Marauder 125... |
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The Artist
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| The Shaggy D.A. |
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The Shaggy D.A.
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Posted: 16:27 - 11 Oct 2011  Post subject: |
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Aye, put the money towards passing your test.
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Chances are quite high you are not in my Monkeysphere, and I don't care about you. Don't take it personally.
Currently : Royal Enfield 350 Meteor
Previously : CB100N > CB250RS > XJ900F > GT550 > GPZ750R/1000RX > AJS M16 > R100RT > Bullet 500 > CB500 > LS650P > Bullet Electra X & YBR125 > Bullet 350 "Superstar" & YBR125 Custom > Royal Enfield Classic 500 Despatch Limited Edition (28 of 200) & CB Two-Fifty Nighthawk > ER5 |
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 18:28 - 11 Oct 2011 Post subject: |
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| The Shaggy D.A. wrote: | Aye, put the money towards passing your test. |
Countdown to 3rd Directive licence changes is now 14 months; after that you wont be able to test on a 125 for anything more than 125 only licence.
1/ Its a 125
2/ Its a four stroke
3/ Its a single
4/ Its a cruiser
5/ its a 'budget' 125, single cylinder, four stoke cruiser.
You are on to a looser before you begin. With 10bhp at best, to begin with , you could throw hundreds at it to super tune it by a wopping 45%, and it would, incredibly STILL be under learner-legal power limit.... and STILL dog slow!
Think about it 45%..... JUST to get to the power made as standard by a CBR125...... and even THAT is half what an Aprillia RS125 can make in full-power guise, without any tuning.......
A CBR 125 will just about scrape 70mph, in favourable conditions. An RS125, in good fettle, if you can keep it going long enough without blowing up, will top out at about 95.... and these are small, lightweight little sports-bikes, NOT long lardy cruisers, lugging excess mass around, and trying to punch it through the air with a frontal area like a barn door, curtecy of ape-hanger bars, and no aerodynamics to help.
FACE IT..... your bike ent NEVER gonna be anything LIKE 'fast'
Mods you suggest, slash cut-pipe, spark plug and drilling holes in the air box, will.... make it noisy...... and likely to run weak..... and possibly burn out the valves..... NOT much more.
Helped Easy-Duz service his bike the other day, and just setting the tappets found him an extra 5mph.....
I suspect yours is in similar maintenence defacit, where the BIGGEST gains for your money are NOT to be found trying to add bolt on tuning goodies, to give it more power than was intended, but servicing the fecker to get back the ponies you almost certainly DONT have right now......
SIMPLY fitting standard, ordinary spark plug; cleaning the carb, cleaning the air filter, setting up the mixture properly, and making sure that the standard exhaust isn't leaking, will get you up to the book speed of 65mph.....
I doubt that fucking around with air-box and exhaust will do much more......
But hey, if you are really deturmined..... yes; aftermarket igniter box with more agressive advance curve for the ignition. Get the head off, get it skimmed to increase compression, possibly have the valves opened up and use bigger ones turned down from a bigger bike. And get a high lift camshaft. Add a larger carburettor, ditch stock exhaust system complete, and fit a bigger, shorter header system with large capacity tail pipe.
Any you COULD get as much as.... oh.... 12bhp!
Motor is very similar to upright pitbike engines, for which loads of tuning goodies exist; but, without increasing engine capacity, 12-13bhp ish is about ALL they can manage. Going 140 or 170 big-big they can start scaring the mid teens from them...... but; you are into teritory of spending lots and lots of money, and not having a bike thats learner legal..... and STILL not 'fast'.
With 14bhp, barely achievable with 125cc, you are only JUST looking at nudging the 70mph mark with the motor in THAT frame....
BASICALLY; if you want faster, whatever you are spending on the thing would go an awful long way to making up the difference to chop it in against something already faster, like a CBR125, or even a half decent CG125!
BUT, as Shaggy points out; Save pennies; get licence. £121.50's worth of Theory/Hazard; Mod 1 & Mod 2, and you can flog the Ma-phut-er off and use money to buy something, I dont know, like a CD200 Benley...... which has 15bhp as stock, and will do a genuine 75..... AND is cheaper to insure, and just as fruigal on fuel, AND is cheaper to buy!
Alternatively a 535 Virago is the entry cruiser, with over 50bhp on tap, and genuine 100mph performance.......
FAR more 'Bang for your Buck'.... than frigging around with a budget cruiser, that will NEVER be much more than it is.
If you really dont want to step up to a bigger bike.... hell a 125 cruiser TWIN, like a Suzuki Intruder, or Honda Shaddow, WILL for less extra expense offer you more 'speed' than muggering around with the one lunger.....
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| Gruf2005 |
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Gruf2005
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| Posted: 16:43 - 12 Oct 2011 Post subject: |
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Cheers for the replys and rants... 
I know this model of bike isnt going to go fast thats not really my objective, all I want it to do is be capable of keeping up on A roads, and just incase of emergencys have that 5/10 mph extra to be able to shift out of the way...
When Im travelling back to wales the bike has to be in 3rd to get up some of the hills and thats pushing a whopping 35 mph which is not great for the other road users or my engine.
I can tell from the engine its capable of more but its slightly off for power in the top end hence Im sticking a 16t on and looking to upjet with the exhaust and air mod.
2-3 bhp more should just nudge it on to the level and as for cash its not hard to work on the engine myself its pretty straight forward even stripping, rebuilding, jet adjusting etc...
Oh and this wouldn't be my first bike, started riding about 10 year ago...
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Sometimes going fast isnt enough... SR 125, GSX 750 RR, Marauder 125... |
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 17:41 - 12 Oct 2011 Post subject: |
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| Gruf2005 wrote: | I know this model of bike isnt going to go fast thats not really my objective, all I want it to do is be capable of keeping up on A roads, and just incase of emergencys have that 5/10 mph extra to be able to shift out of the way...
2-3 bhp more should just nudge it on to the level and as for cash its not hard to work on the engine myself its pretty straight forward even stripping, rebuilding, jet adjusting etc...
Oh and this wouldn't be my first bike, started riding about 10 year ago... |
You are missing the point; Easy-Duz's bike I mentioned is a 2005 GZ125 Marauder.... we got the sort of 'improvement' you say you want MERELY doing a propper service on the damn thing.
It wont give you the 'reserve' to get out the way of any traffic you are holding up, in any kind of 'emergency'! You'll be using it merely to hold road speed!
And 'Only' 2-3bhp..... thats 20-30bhp on a the ten bhp motor you have?
Marauder motor, is making 80bhp per litre. That is a fairly high specific power out-put by four stroke engine standards. A an aircooled SOHC 500 'four' (same size pots) puts out around 90-100bhp per litre; 500 cummuter twins around 90bhp/l. Typical car engine water-cooled, DOHC, fuel injected puts out around 70bhp/l.
Your engine is low tuned, but it is not so lowly tuned you have that much 'scope' top get big easy gains.
And 2/3bhp IS big on an engine that small.
Sure you can get 3/4bhp more 'peak' on a Bandit just swapping the exhaust..... but that is an engine making 60bhp, where 3bhp is only 5% AND the engine is 'detuned' from something that in 'sports' tune would make 75bhp or 25% more.....
The aspiration of 'only a couple' of horse power on a little engine like that is like taking an old jelly mold CBR600 that had, as stock 75bhp and hoping to make it as powerful as a modern CBR600RR, that has 100.... a tough call.
As said; the marauder motor is what it is, and if you dont like it the way it is; you have got the wrong bike. Either apreciate it for the strengths it DOES have or get one that has teh strengths you want, rather than muggering around, trying to make it something it's not.
As said, at best, the mods you suggest; a new tail pipe, and cutting up the air-box are likely to do little to improve performance; particularly oif the engine doesn't have all it ought to to start with.
Old racing addage; before looking for more than standar, make sure you have what you should AS standard.
AND; tuning a bike for more power, if its down on power becouse its old, worn out and half knackered, like as not you will loose any 'gains' from tuning, merely making up the shortfall in whats been lost from the engine being knackered; AND boosting the power back up, you will as like wear out what little life the thing has left in it twice as fast.
AND that is is your 'mods' are well enough considered and exicuted to not actually do anything to knacker it... and what you have suggested, airbox and pipe, are likely to make it run horendousely weak, and melt valves, which WILL melt on a normal mixture if the tappets aren't properly adjusted.....
Yes, upjet to correct mixture for mods...... great idea....
You now have a bike running an over ritch mixture, burning more fuel, reducing its one major strength, furgality, to do no more than gain the power you lost from wear and tear and poor maintenence, IF that..... and making it more noisy, and chucking throttle response and idle to the wind.
Your bike; your call, but it ought to be faster than it is now, by your description.
It has a problem; one that suggested 'tuning' wont solve......
Up to you how you use this wisdom, its not my bike, or my money....
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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Gruf2005
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| Posted: 18:38 - 12 Oct 2011 Post subject: |
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Well cheers for the reply and the wisdom...
Im gonna have a play as its here just for tinkering with and I've seen some pretty smart custom jobs done to them on various other pages Bobbers, Low riders etc...
Lots of work done to them on spanish forums I've noticed.
Another thing that sprang to mind is the engine blocks for the GS, GZ, GN, DR are all based on the same design.. The DR had a 15bhp edition with 6 speed gearbox. It might be rare to find but it should fit the frame with a little work... Interesting.
Could turn into a Nifty custom job LoL  Bring on the Chrome!
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Sometimes going fast isnt enough... SR 125, GSX 750 RR, Marauder 125... |
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felicity
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| The Shaggy D.A. |
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The Shaggy D.A.
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Gruf2005
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| Posted: 20:16 - 12 Oct 2011 Post subject: |
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LoL I thought about chopping a GN engine into the frame as its pretty much the same... Infact I think it is!! 
A lot of customising guys have thought of this as we dont get the GZ 250s in the UK.
Still being I've got it here I might as well play  cant help myself really... Did the same to my mountain bike and ended up building a Custon DaBomb 4play with huge downhill forks and fat tyres 8" brakes etc..
I just love tinkering with bikes of any description, one of those guys that takes his engine apart in his kitchen so he can eat and tweak without getting hungry or missing a cuppa!
Still if anyone is interested in this sort of FoolHardy project or has one of their own let me know your Ideas or tips 
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Sometimes going fast isnt enough... SR 125, GSX 750 RR, Marauder 125... |
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| Drake |
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Drake
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| Posted: 20:45 - 12 Oct 2011 Post subject: |
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a quick and easy one ten minutes before your due out take some very strong laxatives
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was: derbi senda, aprilia sx125, nsr250 mc16, cagiva mito, cb600 hornet now: mk1 bandit, KR1S, landrover series 3 light weight 2.5 petrol, 5speed box |
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EazyDuz
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| Posted: 20:47 - 12 Oct 2011 Post subject: |
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It seems you arent really listening to anyones advice.
No one can tell you not to do something, they can only advise you.
I have the GZ125 as Tef mentioned, and yes it is dog slow, tappets have improved it somewhat. Correctly tensioned chain, oil change, clean air filter and new tyres seem to have improved acceleration as well.
But it is still slow, i average 50mph, 55 on very slight downhills, 45 on very slight uphills, 30-40mph with face full of wind on moderate hill, 65mph slight downhill with wind behind me, you get the idea.
Wind affects that bike more than anything, get God blowing you from behind and you will go pretty quick, fast enough to not piss off cagers, get wind against you and you may as well walk, thats what ive found anyway.
Follow Tefs advice imo, and if you must mess about with its sound and looks, do it when you pass and the pressure is off you.
My mods on my bike are simply HIDs because i cant see all that well at night, and heated grips for winter. And a 12v socket for sat nav, thats it.
When i pass i might mess about to try and make it sound a bit meatier, then when im done butchering the exhaust ill buy another one to sell the bike with, as the one ive got has a nice scar down it when i came off the other day...
Change filters, change oil, set tappets, change tyres if they are on the way out, care for the chain, make sure brakes arent binding and thats your lot.
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 22:19 - 12 Oct 2011 Post subject: |
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| EazyDuz wrote: | It seems you arent really listening to anyones advice. |
He is Duz, only we aren't answering the question he wants answered; we are answering the question he has actually 'asked'!
Defeated by 'logic', we get to the truth of the matter which is he wants to build a 'special' out of the thing, and wants more power in the process....
To wit we have gone from trying to tune up the GN motor, to fitting DR engine..... yes, same lump in higher state of tune; not 15bhp, but Euro A1 (UK Learner-Legal) 11Kw complient, rounded up to nearest whole number in bhp.
Which is to the GN engine what the CB125 Super-Dream lump is to the CM Rebel engines...... shares teh same crank-case castings and numerouse internals, but is to all extents and purposes a very different engine, where you cant just swap one of two bits over to get the extra power; its a full tear down job; hence replacing the engine is probably easier..... and if doing THAT going whole hog and walloping in the GN250 lump, which is far more readily available in this country, and again, based on teh same crank-case castings, the more 'do-able'.
However..... creating a 'special' one STILL has to ask the obviouse and WHY start with a 125 Marauder? When there are a LOT better places to start such a project?
Eg: 125 Marauder is cheap, economical and learner legal. As such sold on in good standard condition worth about as much as it ever will be.
For something to chop up and hot-rod, personally, I'd start with something that offered more possibilities, and or had less intrinsic value.
Before Snowie's AJS Cruiser 'Thing' got nicked, I was weighing up its pottential for a 'special' build. Failing to sell, taxed and tested for an adevertised £300.... it's a much cheaper starting place to be lopping frame rails off and 'stuff', and yeah, Chinese; crap chrome, shit steel, and poor build quality; but what the heck; special, you are going to build to your own standard, and bits are going to be lopped and chopped and re-finished to your own satisfaction; basically you are starting with a headstock tube and log-book..... so why pay more for it than you have to?
That AJS frame housed a Benley series copy-motor; bo9lt for bolt interchangeable ANY of the benley series engines would fit, as would many of the small Honda Singles; so everything from a CG125/150/200 lump, CB100N/CB125S or RS, or XL125 / 185 engine, THEN the twins; CD125 Twin, CM125 Twin, CA125 Twin; CB125 Twin; CD175, CD185, CD200, CM200, CA200, CM250, CB-Two-Fifty, CMX250, CD250..... I think that covers most of them!
Basically anything from a 7bhp push-rod single up to a 233cc 20bhp OHC twin, 'off the shelf' and readily available'.... ALL directly bolt in compatible. Without any major metal-fabrication in the engine cradle....
Getting more imaginative; and peering into dark crevices at local bike breakers, I spotted a number of VFR400 engines, which got me seriousely 'thinking'..... 'Mini-Max'..... and a little dimension checking suggested that it could be forced to fit...... straight away we are looking at 60bhp, not a miserly 16!
BUT... we are at the stage in this 'project' that there are no clear or objectives; we have infront of us a Marauder and an the idea to 'do something' special... which we ALL get, and is laudible enough...... but at this stage, chap has either to come around to the idea that IF he is goiung to do something 'special', ANYTHING done to a 125 Marauder is probably NOT going to be all THAT special, and as much work as doing something TRULY special, starting from scratch, with a clear idea, from mulling it over....
OR has to get out there, take the bike to bits, make half arsed changes on a 'suck it and see' basis, until dawn of realisation strikes that it ISN'T all that 'special'....... realises what he has done, and gives up on it!
And err.... Duz...... what was it YOU wanted to do to your exhaust? 
| Gruf2005 wrote: | Still if anyone is interested in this sort of FoolHardy project or has one of their own let me know your Ideas or tips |
Always interested in this stuff, and projects of my own? Check Show & Tell! And 'starting in the wrong place'?!?!? Yeah, I renovate twenty five year old Honda 125 Super-Dreams! So I'm doing a 30 year old Yamaha 'Enduro' as 'theropy'!
Advice! Plenty so far ALL of it saying that a 125 Marauder is not a great starting place! Its just 'not' a bike that has very much 'pottential'.
You metioned a 'bobber' you mentioned chrome, you mentioned 'tinkering', and you suggested building a push-bike as expertise in that area.... WELL, not belittling it, but BIG leap from that to full on motorbike custom builds.
Well... unless you do a cheque book chop; built from 'kit' and catalogue; where it is much the same, everything designed around 'standard' (irony!) 'custom' components!
The 'real' special is scratch-built; and organically created, blending available parts, with lots of met-fab and injunuity.
It takes lots of painstaking attension to detail; many, MANY hours trial and error making things fit and work, and NOT accepting half arsed compromises or 'it'll do'... its ALL about making it as 'perfect' as you can..... and to my mind, not riding to that challenge, you might as well not bother... even a survival special / rat-bike, these days has to be built to that kind of standard to lift itself above the the throng of 'pretenders' to be a 'contender'.
And NO 'build' is ever cheap, let alone costless. Welding rods dont grow on trees (though they are known to fall out the back of vans!), and on a 'special', you cant afford to spoil the boat for a hapth of tar, so after all that hard work filing, shaping & migging, you dont just daub the stuff in hammerite.....
It aint NEVER going to be 'cheap'; but dont mean it cant be done on a 'budget'.
Next up; Starting point; starting with a viable, useable motorcycle, that has intrinsic value, often wasted JUST doing something 'wrong' to make it 'nicer', like badly painting it, or adding lots of poorly considered accessories; let alone completely changing the style to YOUR personal taste.
People rarely value 'custom' motorcycles as highly as their creators do; they do more often value show-room standard models.
On THAT basis; a Marauder, that's worth perhaps £5-600 as is, is possibly NOT the best place to start, when you could get as much intrinsic structural value from a Chinese-Fake-Away worth half that; or an old derelict that you could get for nix, from some-one that wants the space its occupying!
Next up; projects that most often succeed start with a clear idea of what creator wants to achieve, not merely a 'notion' to do 'something'.
There is ROOM for 'lets see' in a project with a clear goal; but a project that is ALL lets see, nearly always ends up looking and never happening, often with a lot of time, money and effort expense 'wasted' exploring stuff that doesn't look right or work right and gets thrown away.
Marauder..... its a roller..... a serviceable motorcycle, AS IS.
A rolling project is severely hampered by keeping the bike rolling; there is only SO much you can do within a two day window when the bike isn't 'needed'..... and rolling 'projects' either end up looking like fair ground rides all dressed up on top, nothing underneath holding them together, or melding it into a considered creation, or they end up in bits, getting done 'properly'.... or often not.
If you are going to do a project; best starting clean sheet; goals objectives ideas; and a bit of space, and no pressure to make it work in a hurry.... and build from teh ground up, EXACTLY how you want it, NO COMPROMISES.
Which suggests, best thing to do with the Marauder is keep it, as is, a viable running get-about; service it scrub it, make it as good as you can, use it as intended.... NOT as a project base.
For THAT let go of the Marauder; look further afield, let your gaze scour the horizon of possibilities and think hard what you want.
You can get cheap little Chinky Custom/Cruisers to mess with for a baked bean budget project for pennies, that have a lot more pottential scope, without muggering with alternative motors; and even more if you do; as AJS-Regal Raptor of Snowies suggested.
For something 'bigger' there are bikes out there that are unloved, that can be picked up for pocket money, and plated with. Jimbothe was mucking about with a Yamaha FJ1200 he aquired for well under £500 and is seeing to the road, neatly 'ratted' for that budget... its doable.
Size is not an issue; you can go as big as you want. Then how hard-core do you want to take it? Big motors are in abundance in clapped out chassis; you could bob one; hard tail one; rat one' fighter one; only limit ois your imagination, skill, and wallet.
Propper 'cruiiser' style? Well, you mean Harley or Harley Clone. The cult of the Chopper was born more often from cutting up BSA or Triumphs as it was old Harleys........ and by the 70's people were hard-tail framing Jap 4's in the same way......
But if you must have V-Twin, many options out there and a likely candidate would be an old Honda VT500 or derivative like a Transalp; again, bikes that can be picked up as project bases for not a lot of money, and provide a basis to do something much 'more' special and more useful than you ever could with the Marauder....
Whose greatest strength is SIMPLY doing what it was designed for; a low rent learner-legal get-about , with token cruiser styling.
End of the day, specials ought to be exactly that.... and are you SERIOUSELY trying to tell us that a marauder 125 is the bike of your dreams, and the object of your desires to have all your creative attensions poured into it?
Now mention of your ten years into biking...... and three bikes, one a 750 in your sig line.... whats the story and why so ardent on doing whatever with the Marauder?
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| EazyDuz |
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EazyDuz
World Chat Champion
Joined: 11 Apr 2011
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| Gruf2005 |
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Gruf2005
L Plate Warrior
Joined: 10 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 11:35 - 13 Oct 2011 Post subject: |
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Well cheers for the constructive feedback  and the wasted time LoL
Oh well I'll check in with the spanish guys.
C'ya
____________________
Sometimes going fast isnt enough... SR 125, GSX 750 RR, Marauder 125... |
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| P.addy |
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P.addy
Formerly known as
P.
Joined: 14 Feb 2008
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| Posted: 11:44 - 13 Oct 2011 Post subject: |
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Im getting atleast 50% more clunge with a sports bike.
Do the right thing |
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| EazyDuz |
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EazyDuz
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Old Thread Alert!
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