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Project: R1 Engine Overhaul - SORTED

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Fizzer Thou
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PostPosted: 20:32 - 01 Apr 2012    Post subject: Project: R1 Engine Overhaul - SORTED Reply with quote

https://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w384/Rhencullen5/Picture008.jpg

Looks good on the outside,but unfortunately it was down on power.

After replacing the worn clutch,changing the shims to adjust the clearances,replacing the spark plugs and balancing the carbs,I was told by my friend that the bike still had a problem off idle.
I had not heard or ridden the bike beforehand so did not know how bad the problem was.When I had been balancing the carbs I had noticed that there was a bad smell of petrol coming from the crankcase breather.So,after performing a compression check with a hot engine,the results showed that the rings were in need of replacing.Not easy on the R1 engine as the liners are part of the top crankcase.
First things first,I have taken delivery of the engine as the crankcases will need to be split.

And so it begins

https://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w384/Rhencullen5/Picture010.jpg
https://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w384/Rhencullen5/Picture011.jpg
https://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w384/Rhencullen5/Picture012.jpg
https://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w384/Rhencullen5/Picture013.jpg
https://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w384/Rhencullen5/Picture015.jpg

In the last pic there is the AIS pump,which injects filtered air into the exhaust manifolds so as to burn any hydrocarbons unburnt by combustion.It might just have to go,as it causes gas analysers to be given a false reading when engines are run on a dynomometer.I have done this on my own R1 but is not a straightforward job.Luckily I have a lathe where I can make my parts,but if you wanted to buy the plugs required to blank off the AIS ports from the USA,they are quite expensive.

https://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv23/WiNot_Rhencullen/Workshop/Picture446.jpg
https://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv23/WiNot_Rhencullen/Workshop/Picture447.jpg
https://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv23/WiNot_Rhencullen/Workshop/Picture451.jpg
https://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv23/WiNot_Rhencullen/Workshop/Picture457.jpg

I have been asked to get this engine done ready for the TT races in June,but I reckon I could get it done by the beginning of May in time for the Mayday Run.
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Last edited by Fizzer Thou on 21:29 - 06 Jun 2012; edited 1 time in total
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trippz
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PostPosted: 20:53 - 01 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would love to see more on this, I'm really into mechanics and such. If I din't lack space I would have probably bought a older CG just to learn on.
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Werny
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PostPosted: 22:01 - 01 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do all R1's have that AIS thingy or is it a US import and needed for their emission laws?

Also, potentially cool thread Mr. Green
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dangerousdave
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PostPosted: 00:05 - 02 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

excellent work .... will be following this
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Sako
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PostPosted: 20:49 - 02 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

will be following ths thread. Thumbs Up
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P.
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PostPosted: 21:55 - 02 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you get bored theres a lovely GSXR750 engine you can get your hands on to have a fiddle if you wish Wink
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Fizzer Thou
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PostPosted: 23:03 - 02 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Werny wrote:
Do all R1's have that AIS thingy or is it a US import and needed for their emission laws?

Also, potentially cool thread Mr. Green


The AIS pump is not installed on the early UK version 4XV but is on the UK 5JJ.As there is a Cat in the silencer of the injected '02-'03 model there is no need for the pump.

I will be updating this thread as and when I get a few specific tools that I will need.

As for Suzukis Paddy,I cannot count to 16 valves only 20.But I am sure that they are not too differant Shocked
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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 08:57 - 03 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watching with interest, keep up the good work Thumbs Up .
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HD
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PostPosted: 16:54 - 03 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

How did you fit those blanking plugs?

Looking good though! Thumbs Up
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Fizzer Thou
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PostPosted: 21:57 - 03 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

The adapters for the AIS pump are only an interferance fit so I machined the plugs accordingly and once fitted have stayed in place without any problems.

Major progress today while I was awaiting for parts to be delivered for another project.

https://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w384/Rhencullen5/Picture022.jpg

This is the AIS pump,a complicated piece of mechanical mayhem that when it goes wrong costs lots of money to replace as it is irrepairable.The easy solution is to just remove it and to blank off the ports.

https://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w384/Rhencullen5/Picture021.jpg

So,pump removed and cam cover off exposing the cams

https://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w384/Rhencullen5/Picture020.jpg

Timing rotor cover off

https://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w384/Rhencullen5/Picture027.jpg

Cam journal covers off

https://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w384/Rhencullen5/Picture029.jpg

Cams out

https://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w384/Rhencullen5/Picture030.jpg

Cam followers or inverted buckets exposed.These have the clearance adjusting shims beneath them so I always use a good magnet to remove both the bucket and the shim at the same time

https://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w384/Rhencullen5/Picture033.jpg

I utilise this for holding the buckets ready for reinstallation

https://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w384/Rhencullen5/Picture034.jpg

The last bucket waiting to be pulled

https://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w384/Rhencullen5/Picture037.jpg

Waiting somewhere to be stored safely

https://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w384/Rhencullen5/Picture039.jpg

Cylinder head off after removing every nut and bolt of all differant sizes,some 5mm allen bolt,two 14mm dome nuts and several 6mm hex blank nuts.It helps to have the right tools

Oh dear.The following pics are what I found when I looked into the bores of each cylinder.I will let the photos explain

https://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w384/Rhencullen5/Picture040.jpg
https://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w384/Rhencullen5/Picture041.jpg
https://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w384/Rhencullen5/Picture042.jpg
https://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w384/Rhencullen5/Picture043.jpg
https://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w384/Rhencullen5/Picture044.jpg
https://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w384/Rhencullen5/Picture045.jpg
https://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w384/Rhencullen5/Picture046.jpg
https://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w384/Rhencullen5/Picture047.jpg
https://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w384/Rhencullen5/Picture048.jpg
https://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w384/Rhencullen5/Picture049.jpg

With this much damage to the liners I am not surprised that there was so much steam and unburnt petrol being pushed out via the crankcase breather.As the liners are part of the top crankcase there is no option other than to have to source another set of cases.These are line bored at the factory and cannot be mixed and matched,so if a suitable set can be found it will mean swapping many parts over from the source engine to the new cases,together with the likelihood of new piston rings and main bearing shells.
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CHR15
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PostPosted: 22:15 - 03 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

are they iron or nikosil ali?
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Fizzer Thou
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PostPosted: 22:43 - 03 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nikasil.I doubt that they are even worth bothering about.The cracks may well have gone all of the way through which would explain how the gases were being pushed out through the breather,up into the airbox and causing a major bog just off idle.My friend did say that once the engine got over this bog the power was massive.Just think what it will feel like with it all sorted Twisted Evil
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CHR15
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PostPosted: 22:45 - 03 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

thought so, just surprised they've actually held in one piece with cracks like that!

bet a whole engine wont set you back much more than a decent set of cases?
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waffles
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PostPosted: 10:11 - 04 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I have to ask..... What would cause all of the liners to crack like that?
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 10:53 - 04 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

waffles wrote:
OK, I have to ask..... What would cause all of the liners to crack like that?


+1 Thumbs Up

When My TDM goes tits, up I'm coming round BTW, that has 10 valves so should be half the work right? Shifty

Laughing
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P.
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PostPosted: 13:12 - 04 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Join the queue Wink Laughing
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Fizzer Thou
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PostPosted: 22:42 - 04 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

waffles wrote:
OK, I have to ask..... What would cause all of the liners to crack like that?


That is a good question.I have never come across engine damage like this before and especially not in a similar position on each bore.
It is a though it has overheated at some time and where the material is at its thickest,it has cracked.But this does not explain what looks like piston ring damage to the bores.Until I get the pistons out of the bores I will not know the full extent of the horrors within.

What I do know is that my friend is looking to have his brakes and engine serviced on his other roadbike so that this might be used instead for the Mayday Run.
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Sako
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PostPosted: 20:08 - 07 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

that damage is shocking, not surprised it wasn't running to great!

good luck getting her sorted out. Thumbs Up
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evoboy
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PostPosted: 13:43 - 08 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the suspected piston ring damage in all of the bores or just the damaged ones? (or are all 4 cracked?).
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Nick 50
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PostPosted: 14:40 - 08 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fizzer Thou wrote:
waffles wrote:
OK, I have to ask..... What would cause all of the liners to crack like that?


That is a good question.I have never come across engine damage like this before and especially not in a similar position on each bore.
It is a though it has overheated at some time and where the material is at its thickest,it has cracked.But this does not explain what looks like piston ring damage to the bores.Until I get the pistons out of the bores I will not know the full extent of the horrors within.

What I do know is that my friend is looking to have his brakes and engine serviced on his other roadbike so that this might be used instead for the Mayday Run.


Has the R1 owner done a lot of touring across Europe on it??

The reason I ask is, it looks and sounds like the old "Nikasil Myth".

*Edit* actually I wouldn't be surprised if years of Big Supermarket Cheapo Smartprice Super Unleaded is the cause.
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Fizzer Thou
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PostPosted: 16:53 - 08 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

evoboy wrote:
Is the suspected piston ring damage in all of the bores or just the damaged ones? (or are all 4 cracked?).


It appears that not all cylinders have suffered from what might be piston ring damage,but all of the bores are cracked in similar places.

Having had a good think about it,nikisil bores should not show honing marks as the plating is more like chroming and so should be smooth.It is as though the engine has been apart by a previous owner,honed then had new rings fitted.

My friend has not ridden abroad on the bike so the damage is even more unexplainable.
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binge
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PostPosted: 16:54 - 08 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread is made of so much win! Smile
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StormCrow
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PostPosted: 19:45 - 08 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Made of win? Not at the moment unfortunately - it's a nice centrepiece for the front room though! Laughing

Looking forward to seeing the progress (assuming the OP's friend decides to carry on with the resto - I'm hoping he / she will!)
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speedy
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PostPosted: 19:53 - 08 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

i used to run a malossi 172 cylinder kit, this kit also had a nikisil liner and came (bran new) with honing marks
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evoboy
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PostPosted: 18:44 - 09 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fizzer Thou wrote:

Having had a good think about it,nikisil bores should not show honing marks as the plating is more like chroming and so should be smooth.It is as though the engine has been apart by a previous owner,honed then had new rings fitted.

My friend has not ridden abroad on the bike so the damage is even more unexplainable.


The honing marks look quite deep to me. (unless its just the light). From memory, ive had nikasil lined bores come with very light honing marks on before. Even when ive had the bores done on the X7, the honing marks arent that visable.

I dont think the scores in the liner are causing any issue though tbh, just looks like its had a very easy life. Altho id expect them to have been worn away quite a bit by now. So your theory of the engine having been rebuilt before does seem quite possible...
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