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Family obligation - Update... AGAIN!

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Visitor Q
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PostPosted: 14:45 - 14 Apr 2012    Post subject: Family obligation - Update... AGAIN! Reply with quote

UPDATED... go to page 5 for update.
Updated, a second time

So, admittedly my family are very far down on the scale of oiks, and have been fractured to a lesser or greater extent since I was only young...

But my last visit back really hit home what a horrible group of people they are, how much I'd out grown them, and generally what a negative influence they were in my life.

I have sat and thought about it at length, and eventually just wiped them off my facebook. It sounds petty, but it was their last means to 'keep an eye on me', they would argue to check how I was going, I would argue it was to watch me if I fail. Not to mention all the threats about health insurance and such (if I didn't have it they'd have to bail me out, and have to sell the house to do so - with the inference I'd never get out from their pocket if they did), I've decided to deprive them of that.

Anyway, middle class spoilt kid whose parents never divorced though I am (therefore I totally have no rights to complain Laughing), I feel I'm not acting out of childish pique... I just can't bring myself to keep stoking the fire with people I have nothing but contempt for.

So, any more to add on this discussion? Either side?
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Last edited by Visitor Q on 15:53 - 08 Aug 2014; edited 3 times in total
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 14:49 - 14 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

What country did you grow up in?
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Visitor Q
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PostPosted: 14:53 - 14 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Artist wrote:
What country did you grow up in?


UK, and lived at home until 18.

Never a big fan of them but never knew better... Each time I've left for successively longer.

I had a huge rant written out in one of the threads, which I thought better of. But yes, after 18 months away from them, I had my eyes thoroughly opened this time.
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Reid
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PostPosted: 14:55 - 14 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wrote out a huge long post but easiest summary is this:

I did the same, no regrets at all. Family can be the worst emotional manipulators you'll ever come across. When the only thing tying you to them is the fact you've got common genetics and they provided Maslowe's most basic needs when you were young, there's no reason to hang about or feel any obligation towards them.
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Visitor Q
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PostPosted: 14:59 - 14 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reid wrote:


I did the same, no regrets at all. Family can be the worst emotional manipulators you'll ever come across. When the only thing tying you to them is the fact you've got common genetics and they provided Maslowe's most basic needs when you were young, there's no reason to hang about or feel any obligation towards them.


Thumbs Up

Well put.

I even have some great evidence, sent by my sweet mother after trying to kill me (and my ex-gf) the whole drive to the airport by driving like a cunt... just before a 20 hour flight and emmigrating. Basically saying I was a cunt, and hurt everyone who loves me, and then some guilt tripping to try to make me come back.

They were arguing up to the day I left that they 'never ever guilt trip'.

Fuck them. I have a loan to pay back at first paycheck, and then they can write me out of their will for all I care.
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 15:04 - 14 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bonny wrote:
The Artist wrote:
What country did you grow up in?


UK, and lived at home until 18.

Never a big fan of them but never knew better... Each time I've left for successively longer.

I had a huge rant written out in one of the threads, which I thought better of. But yes, after 18 months away from them, I had my eyes thoroughly opened this time.


So I assume the health insurance thing was about you being abroad?
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Visitor Q
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PostPosted: 15:09 - 14 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Artist wrote:


So I assume the health insurance thing was about you being abroad?


Basically. Long term living abroad, you don't tend to get health insurance. You get friends and get smart.

He never quite got that.

Anyway, his concern was always how he would have to pay. And, because not one member of my family credits me with any maturity or intelligence, didn't believe me when I told him that there was no way in hell he'd pay.

Now I can be certain he fucking won't.
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 16:23 - 14 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmmm? thinks.

1. Some bits of the jigsaw will never fit together.
2. Maybe time and adulthood will become a healer.
3. You cant be held responsable for other peoples thinking.
4. Dont let history chew you up.
5. If you stand alone, you stand alone.
6. You are your own person and have your own will.


I was`nt going to post this, but "what the hell" .
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Bubbs
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PostPosted: 16:52 - 14 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds a bit like your being selfish if I'm honest. Sounds like they are trying their best to manipulate you to stay because they are going to miss you so much, and are trying anything to get you to stay. However I don't know what your childhood was like or many other factors.

Seems harsh to be cutting your family out totally.

Family is the most important thing in my life so I'm biased towards that frame of mind.

Difficult to give a solid response without knowing your background.
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Bubbs
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PostPosted: 16:55 - 14 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plus you should take into account that you have put yourself in a position where you have been able to experience loads of new things, and travelled. You have grown and now when you come back and everything is the same it show's up how much you have changed.

I have experienced this and all I wanted to do was leave again, which I did. But my parents were supportive so all was cool.

Out of interest how old are you Bonny?
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Sload
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PostPosted: 17:06 - 14 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dont know what to add other then don't burn your bridges completely.

People, emotions & circumstance change. Go out & prove yourself if that's your intent but it might be premature to completely disown them. You may regret it further down the line when they are gone.
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bazza
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PostPosted: 17:18 - 14 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like they're well shot of you. Don't ever breed.
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Visitor Q
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PostPosted: 17:30 - 14 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sload wrote:

People, emotions & circumstance change. Go out & prove yourself if that's your intent but it might be premature to completely disown them. You may regret it further down the line when they are gone.


I was of that mindset the last few times. We only get on with a lot of distance between us... Just get shit heaped on me, and my confidence knocked. I can do that very well on my own.

Asides from money, I'd never go near my family for help. And the money comes with so many strings I don't want a penny of it any more.

I'm 25 now, almost all my friends are between 30-50. I have had more trust in my abilities and competence from random people than I've ever had from my family. The only conversation we ever have is either completely banal, recycled (to the nth degree), or more usually, is slating other family members.

Yes, I've grown a lot with the travelling. But the cycle of 'travel -> come home happy and confident -> get beaten down by the family's -especially dad's- collective negativity' is too well trod to be in my head any more. Especially as this time I really couldn't have tried harder to be a nice person, and let it wash over me.

They are emotionally crippled and arrogant cretins, who put all their stock in completely empty statements.

And yes, I may regret it later. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of choice in that regard. I am really trying to move on and grow up as a person, and the painful repetition of the same arguments and bullshit at worst, or at best painfully boring conversations, brings out the worst in me.

None of them think of me beyond the screechy little ADHD kid I was as a child, and that's very painfully clear to me now. I only consider myself a person after I hit 15/16 (nor do I remember much except cringeworthy flashbacks)... by which points my sisters had left home (fled, more to the point) to other cities, and I hated life until I left when I was 18...

People who've seen me post on here have noticed the only times my posts get serious are about my dad being a cunt. When I pay back the float money he lent me, I will be 100% free. I may pop by for a cup of tea if I'm in England.
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Visitor Q
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PostPosted: 17:35 - 14 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

bazza wrote:
Sounds like they're well shot of you. Don't ever breed.


This was the text I got from my mother, just before emigrating to another country. Literally, as I was getting on the plane. This was pretty much the last straw.

Quote:
"Home now. Have a good trip. I'll be glad when you have reinvented yourself again as this version is not so nice. You seemed determined to hurt the ones that love you. Think on it dear. Let us know when in Perth. Give my love to Laura, it was lovely to see her again. Really like her hair. Bye now dear, I know in my heart I will not see you again. Love Ma xxx"


And if I breed, I won't spend my whole time belittling, bullying or generally attacking my children. Scouts honour.
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From September 2014 to January/February 2015 I will not be using any English, nor reading any. As such, I won't be on here. PM at will, but I won't be checking/posting unless in emergencies. Certainly not for the first couple of months. Please berate me savagely if I break that rule...
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Sload
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PostPosted: 17:58 - 14 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

If money and the loan is such a point of contention for you as a family, I would be sorely tempted to take out a bank loan and pay him back. I would consider the interest payment as fair price to remove that from the equation.

As for the text, It didn't read that bad to me. Worst bit was the re-invent comment, the rest was non subtle emotional blackmail. But then I have no emotional ties invested in the situation.

I still say don't go with the intention of 'screw them' for the rest your days. Life has a funny way of twisting your perspective, and the same applies to them. Think of it this way, if they didn't really care, they wouldn't be trying to screw with your head Confused


Last edited by Sload on 17:59 - 14 Apr 2012; edited 1 time in total
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Bubbs
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PostPosted: 17:59 - 14 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Yes, I've grown a lot with the travelling. But the cycle of 'travel -> come home happy and confident -> get beaten down by the family's -especially dad's- collective negativity' is too well trod to be in my head any more. Especially as this time I really couldn't have tried harder to be a nice person, and let it wash over me.


I got this every time I came home from travelling. Everyone is negative as fuck and everything's an effort. The negativity is palpable. I totally understand that and it's one of the main things I hate about this country. Every other country I've lived in seems to be more up for a laugh and more positive. It's like a slap to the face when you get home.

Sounds like your parents still see you as a kid, and you need to break away. I say break away, go live your life but try to keep your family at least a little bit in the loop to save them worrying. It can be as simple as a one way email. Have you tried sitting down and explaining this to your family? I'd be tempted to write a letter/email explaining your thoughts and why you need to get away. Might make a difference.

Whatever you do, good luck. Wish it was me going away again. Thumbs Up
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Visitor Q
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PostPosted: 18:17 - 14 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I explained this problem, to their faces, calmly, several times.

Which inflamed everyone and the emotional blackmail really started then.

The final straw was the last weekend.

I realised, as well, that I actually don't mind England so much. It's hard to earn a living wage, and I have no future there, but the place itself is alright. These three weeks I was back, my friends really came together for me and gave me a great send off... all delighted to see me, complimenting me on how calm and pleasant I was these days...

My family... I got literally 10 hours in the country before both sisters were guilt tripping me about not informing them about my surprise visit, and how they MUST get to spend a whole day with me and I was impinging on their plans.

Great start. People talking to me throughout my 'comeback tour' will know my family were driving me nuts, but that last Sunday was the finality to it, and eventually I did lay it all on my dad. No fear of violence or him destroying all my stuff or any of the other threats he's pulled.

As for the loan, it was required. And I am grateful. But it is going back to him, and he'd sooner it wasn't actually, because then he's the big guy and I'm the sponger.

I worked my arse off saving over 5 grand in 2009 in a shit job in 7 or 8 months... yeh I was staying at home, and fuck did he make sure I knew it. And then at the airport there was a visa issue, so he bought my 500 quid return ticket, and refused to take the money back for it. In his mind now, and what he tells everyone, is he paid for my 5 months in South Africa, which should have only been 3 months except I impressed the dive group so much they employed me another two months... I was 21 then.

He will pay lip service to it all, how wonderful my experiences have been, how I've lived more in my life than most do by the time they die... with a bitter tone to his voice. But by the next hand he's talking to me like I'm a 12 year old. He guilt trips money in to your hand, forces you to make shit decisions with that money (anyone remember that fucking VFR he made me buy, and the shit goose actually... his idea), and then controls and guilts you over it.

He has controlled me my whole life, or at least tried to. The whole family enable him. It's a very toxic atmosphere, and I'm sick of it. I've tried, very very fucking hard to tolerate them all. Really. But now it just seems pointless.

They can say they love me all they want. If every action of theirs is negative, controlling, inflammatory or hateful... what is the fucking point. I genuinely get more respect and trust from strangers these days, and regularly.

Well, we'll see how the email to return the funds goes. May see if I can just reverse the transfer.

Anyway, anyone else had similar revelations? Is it just the next logical step of independence in the 'rebel-without-a-clue' or am I just a loathesome bastard?
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anthony_r6
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PostPosted: 18:32 - 14 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it's as bad as you perceive it to be, then you are better cutting ties. I know quite a few people who are in similar situations with their families. Always being manipulated, used and generally treated like a child, no opinion, no being outspoken, etc etc. If anything is done for their benefit, they're made aware of it at every opportunity.

I look at my friends life and the way her family treat her, and I think if that was me, not only would I have left by now, but I'd have done some damage on my way out.

You don't owe them nothing (except the money I guess.) Just because they're blood related doesn't mean you have to like them, or endure them.
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bazza
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PostPosted: 19:19 - 14 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bonny wrote:
Me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me.


Fucking hell. It really is all about you, isn't it?
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 20:07 - 14 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah shit.
Sad



That text from your mum makes me feel sad for her, it must have ripped her heart out to acknowledge that last bit to herself

(and even if its emotional blackmail, frustratingly, as a mother, I know we would all attempt it, but it is true that it really is very difficult to be so far away from your children, and never see them: no matter how obnoxious they might appear to be at times)

I do agree that you are recognising you're growing away from their repressive influence ... and indeed from the negative remarks that keep you as "their child" and the overhanging threat of always being in their pockets. Its good (and necessary) to break free from those yoke.

But I think there's still a lot of experience to be achieved on your part, and I wouldn't wipe the slate totally clear of them per se, you're still coming across as a bit "angry young man". Knowing you well enough already, I reckon you probably will mature eventually, with decent doses of the introspectiveness you've already shown flashes of here and there.

Just put them to the back of your mind for now, and get on with living your life.

But let them know you're still alive from time to time, yeah? Irregular birthdays, Christmas, etc.

As inferred above, you WILL regret it if they die and you never see them again. Maybe you don't think so now. But if you keep yourself at arms length for long enough, and grow into your own person, then you will lose that edge of enmity which you probably still feel right now, and will settle down into being the "occasional offspring" that most parents do end up getting used to.
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 20:11 - 14 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

bazza wrote:

Fucking hell. It really is all about you, isn't it?

It is his thread after all, bazza Laughing
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angryjonny
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PostPosted: 21:01 - 14 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds to me like your parents are just human rather than perfect. You become more risk-averse as you get older and I'd imagine they think your lifestyle is dangerous and you're irresponsible for doing it. Insurance is quantifiable, smarts are not, no matter how much you have. It would surprise me if they would ever begudge having to bail you out (were it ever to happen) but they don't want to see you get into a situation where it's necessary.

It's also understandable that your family are going to want to monopolise your time when you're home if they don't see you very often. They're probably also to some extent jealous of everything you get to see and do.

You're obviously eloquent, educated and resourceful and whether you like to admit it or not you owe a great deal of that to them. By all means do your own thing, pay your dad back, live your life for you, but don't sever all contact. They love you and it's unfair to punish them that harshly for being imperfect.

I'm actually in the opposite situation from you. I've lived a few hours drive from my parents since I was 18 and I rarely get to see that much of them. They've now just bought a house a couple of miles from mine and I couldn't be happier about it. But then my folks have always been pretty hands-off. "Do what you like, stay safe, call us if you need anything" - that sort of thing.
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bazza
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PostPosted: 21:32 - 14 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

hellkat wrote:
It is his thread after all, bazza Laughing


Aren't they all?
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Raffles
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PostPosted: 22:01 - 14 Apr 2012    Post subject: Re: Family obligation Reply with quote

Bonny wrote:
just wiped them off my facebook. It sounds petty, but it was their last means to 'keep an eye on me'

Do they know about BCF? If they do then all they gotta do is tune in every day and they'll see how you're doing.
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