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| Mikey3 |
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Mikey3
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Joined: 04 Nov 2011
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 Posted: 12:55 - 14 May 2012  Post subject: EPIC COURT WIN! |
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Hi guys,
Going to court next week to finally resolve my accident from last february.
I was travelling down ports down hill road (anyone in portsmouth should know it, for others, its a hill down into Portsmouth, 1 lane either way, 30mph) at about half 5/6ish after college, following a Honda Civic, it had been raining, so the road was damp, but not soaked, it'd dried out a bit.
The Civic infront of me indicated to turn left into a side road down the hill (took AGES to slow down and make the turn), as he turned, I went round the back, a bit early as it was, to meet the front right wing of a Renault Clio (turning right across my lane). Police were never called, I hoped to go my own way and fix my bike, wasn't until my step dad spoke to his dad the next day that he became under the impression I was going to pay for his car too, so I decided to go through insurance..... and so all this has happened.
Now after explaining this to everyone afterwards they instantly said to me 'it's not your fault, go through insurance' blah blah. So I did.
Now it does seem in my small story that it was his fault, turning across my lane, assuming the road behind the Civic was clear, which Highway Code 211 states NOT to do, because of this exact circumstance.. but.....
It became apparent that i'd touched the white line in the centre of the road (its a cross hatching, broken white line, with a right hand turning lane in it - for people turning left going up the hill, into the road which the Clio emerged from) and due to this, I was to blame, this is pretty much their ONLY grounds of argument I can find.
If i'm honest, I don't know if I touched the white line, I said to them I believe I was in my own lane, but because I was too busy focusing on what was in front of me, I can't really argue it.
I'm getting proper nervous about court though, I know its a county court, but I don't do well on the spot, especially not with court stuff, and I'm proper nervous about being cross examined, I've had many chats with my solicitor, probably another one or two still to come, but still, nothing's quite like the actual situation.
Apparently even if I lose I won't have to actually pay anything out my own pocket, I asked about excess but that's apparently only if its fixing my vehicle, which was written off as a Cat B, hence the streetfightering build.
Any tips (sensible ones), I haven't 'overtaken' at a junction since, but I won't word it anywhere near 'overtaking' in the case, it won't do me any favours.
Mike
____________________
'04 Yamaha WR450F
'99 SV650 Streetfighter Project - mid build
'Motorcycling is about what you do; not about what you own, or how much you spend on it'
Last edited by Mikey3 on 19:28 - 23 May 2012; edited 1 time in total |
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| Marmalade |
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Marmalade
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Posted: 13:05 - 14 May 2012  Post subject: |
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It's nothing to worry about.
In reality it just like an informal chat around a table to see who is at fault face to face and then a judgement is made
Forget the wood panelled courtroom and wigs.
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| Mikey3 |
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Mikey3
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P.
Red Rocket
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| Posted: 13:15 - 14 May 2012 Post subject: |
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Court shit me up 
I read it as a civic was turning slowly so you got impatient and nipped round and a clio clipped you/you rode into it?
Correct or is it something different |
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| Mikey3 |
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Mikey3
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| chris-red |
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?
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chris-red
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Posted: 13:26 - 14 May 2012  Post subject: |
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https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=243741
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Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
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Mikey3
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| Posted: 13:32 - 14 May 2012 Post subject: |
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| chris-red wrote: | I had exactly the same accident, except you replace a Civic with a van and a Clio with a Fiesta.
If took the Fiestas insurance company 90mins to call me and admit liability.
It is there fault and I am surprised it has had to go to court. You should win it hands down. |
Thanks mate, the main reason it's going to court is that it's vague as to whether or not I touched the white line, its broken, so I really don't see the problem, I CAN enter it, maybe not just for the lolz but I can should I need to.
Had I not supposedly done that, I reckon it'd have had this all sorted out a long while ago!
BLD sorted me out a hire bike a day later, and apparently they have to be pretty sure it's not your fault before they give you a hire vehicle, but somehow it's dragged on and on, and it's going to court now.
At one stage they even tried to throw a 100% my fault at my insurance company to 'try to catch me out', we've tried 70/30's, 80/20's, 75/25's and they bat them all away, they're adamant they're innocent. My solicitor said its not uncommon, but she said i'd be lucky to get a 100% my way, its more likely to be a split, but she said 50/50 would be the absolute worst case scenario, but she said I could lose completely, and a degree of it is down to the judge/judge's mood on the day, which I totally disagree with.
Mike
____________________
'04 Yamaha WR450F
'99 SV650 Streetfighter Project - mid build
'Motorcycling is about what you do; not about what you own, or how much you spend on it' |
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chris-red
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chris-red
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| Mikey3 |
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Mikey3
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| Posted: 13:38 - 14 May 2012 Post subject: |
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| chris-red wrote: | What might be useful is get a list of all the highway code rules applicable to that scenario, and the one he broke and the ones you obeyed. |
Yeah I've gone through them with le solicitere. Code 211 is the one concerning the issue in question, and it says:
'Motorcyclists and cyclists
211
It is often difficult to see motorcyclists and cyclists, especially when they are coming up from behind, coming out of junctions, at roundabouts, overtaking you or filtering through traffic. Always look out for them before you emerge from a junction; they could be approaching faster than you think. When turning right across a line of slow-moving or stationary traffic, look out for cyclists or motorcyclists on the inside of the traffic you are crossing. Be especially careful when turning, and when changing direction or lane. Be sure to check mirrors and blind spots carefully.'
This is the one we argue he broke. Well, not argue, the one he broke, and the one we're going to use against him.
Mike
____________________
'04 Yamaha WR450F
'99 SV650 Streetfighter Project - mid build
'Motorcycling is about what you do; not about what you own, or how much you spend on it' |
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| T.C |
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T.C
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Posted: 13:46 - 14 May 2012  Post subject: |
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As someone who has given evidence in both criminal courts and civil courts more times than I care to remember and even now, I quite often have to go to court with clients who are in exactly the same situation as yourself, it is worth bearing in mind the following.
The county court is more relaxed than a criminal court, and unlike a criminal court the Judge will assist you where possible and will appreciate that it is probably a nerve wracking experience.
The important thing to remember is only tell the court what you know as fact and what you can actually remember.
If you cannot remember, then say so, what is important is that you do not add stuff to make it more credible or to fit the circumstances, so if you cannot recall touching the white line, if the question is asked, then say so. The Judge will respect you far more for that than if you try to make a statement or comment that cannot be substantiated.
Relax and take your time before answering any questions, especially if the third party has legal representation. If you blurt out the first thing that comes into your mind, you may word it wrongly or with the wrong emphasis. Think about what you want to say before giving your answer.
Remember unliike a criminal court, you are not looking to prove beyond all reasonable doubt, you are only having to show that on the balance of probability of 51% or more the third party caused the crash, and if you are composed, reasonable with your answers and polite, you won't go far wrong, depending on how well the evidence is put forward.
The Judge will have already have seen the case papers, and what is most important to remember is that the third party driver will be bricking it just as much as you if not more.
Don't be surprised though is settlement is not reached on the steps of the court on the day.
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| daemonoid |
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daemonoid
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| Posted: 13:47 - 14 May 2012 Post subject: |
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| Mikey3 wrote: | Yeah I've gone through them with le solicitere. Code 211 is the one concerning the issue in question, and it says:
'Motorcyclists and cyclists
211
It is often difficult to see motorcyclists and cyclists, especially when they are coming up from behind, coming out of junctions, at roundabouts, overtaking you or filtering through traffic. Always look out for them before you emerge from a junction; they could be approaching faster than you think. When turning right across a line of slow-moving or stationary traffic, look out for cyclists or motorcyclists on the inside of the traffic you are crossing. Be especially careful when turning, and when changing direction or lane. Be sure to check mirrors and blind spots carefully.'
This is the one we argue he broke. Well, not argue, the one he broke, and the one we're going to use against him.
Mike |
And surely you were filtering and not overtaking? After all the civic was slow moving...
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Mikey3
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Mikey3
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| Posted: 13:55 - 14 May 2012 Post subject: |
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| T.C wrote: | As someone who has given evidence in both criminal courts and civil courts more times than I care to remember and even now, I quite often have to go to court with clients who are in exactly the same situation as yourself, it is worth bearing in mind the following.
The county court is more relaxed than a criminal court, and unlike a criminal court the Judge will assist you where possible and will appreciate that it is probably a nerve wracking experience.
The important thing to remember is only tell the court what you know as fact and what you can actually remember.
If you cannot remember, then say so, what is important is that you do not add stuff to make it more credible or to fit the circumstances, so if you cannot recall touching the white line, if the question is asked, then say so. The Judge will respect you far more for that than if you try to make a statement or comment that cannot be substantiated.
Relax and take your time before answering any questions, especially if the third party has legal representation. If you blurt out the first thing that comes into your mind, you may word it wrongly or with the wrong emphasis. Think about what you want to say before giving your answer.
Remember unliike a criminal court, you are not looking to prove beyond all reasonable doubt, you are only having to show that on the balance of probability of 51% or more the third party caused the crash, and if you are composed, reasonable with your answers and polite, you won't go far wrong, depending on how well the evidence is put forward.
The Judge will have already have seen the case papers, and what is most important to remember is that the third party driver will be bricking it just as much as you if not more.
Don't be surprised though is settlement is not reached on the steps of the court on the day. |
Thank you, very reassuring knowing some more actual info on the court.
You say it still may not be settled then and there, what happens after? 'Cause it's already spent over a year playing liability tennis and after court I can't see how else it can be settled, except another hearing?
Mike
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'04 Yamaha WR450F
'99 SV650 Streetfighter Project - mid build
'Motorcycling is about what you do; not about what you own, or how much you spend on it' |
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T.C
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Kris
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| Posted: 14:22 - 14 May 2012 Post subject: |
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I would say it appears to be in your interest NOT to settle for a portion of the blame on the court steps, if they do try it on.
Good luck. 
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Kris
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| Posted: 14:26 - 14 May 2012 Post subject: |
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repost bleugh 
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Mikey3
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Kris
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| Posted: 14:40 - 14 May 2012 Post subject: |
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My cynical leanings make me think they are using the Court date as a scare tactic - seeing as they appear to not really have a leg to stand on and you (I'm guessing) are young and probably a little wet behind the ears when it comes to legal dealings.
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Mikey3
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T.C
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shereen
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Mikey3
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| Posted: 15:00 - 14 May 2012 Post subject: |
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| T.C wrote: |
Depends on who issued proceedings.
It is for the claimant to issue proceedings within 3 years of date of injury or date of knowledge whichever is the sooner to protect their position as far as the claim is concerned.
Third party defendants (the other side) will usually try and employ delaying tactics in the hope that the claimant will either just drop the matter and go away, or they will miss the statute date and they can then have the case struck out.
But when the claimant issues proceedings it shows the other side that the claimant is serious and it usually gets the other sides attention, but it also a guide to the court that the evidence must be quite favourable by virtue that proceedings have been issued and the court fees paid, so it has nothing to do with being wet behind the ears or anything like that, because the other side will have hoped that proceedings would not have been issued in the first place.
As far as costing the OP any money in the event he loses, how is your case being funded?
If you are on a Conditional Fee Agreement (no win no fee) it will not cost you a penny if you lose, if you are on Legal Expenses Insurance (LEI) then much will depend on the terms of the policy, but in 99% of cases the insurers will also pick up the tab if you lose. |
I think I'm on a no win no fee thing, my only worry was my excess, but like I mentioned above, apparently that's only relevant when it's paying damages for your vehicle. My solicitor told me I wouldn't have to pay anything, IIRC.
I'm going to call her and have a chat tomorrow probably, just to clear everything up finally, no win no fee rings a bell from our phone calls, and I don't remember anything to do with LEI.
Mike
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'04 Yamaha WR450F
'99 SV650 Streetfighter Project - mid build
'Motorcycling is about what you do; not about what you own, or how much you spend on it' |
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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Posted: 15:02 - 14 May 2012  Post subject: |
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Who's making the claim that you were too far to the right (positioned there to increase your conspicuity)?
If it's Clioboi, he'd be as well not turning up. If he's idiotic enough to admit that he saw you, positioned in a way that could not reasonably have implied that you were going to do anything except proceed, and that he then pulled out across your path anyway, then costs, please.
Heck, he's just admitted to driving without due care/attention/consideration, at the very least. Why did he pull out when there was no reasonable belief that you were intending to stop or turn off? To learn you a lesson?
However, if it's a witness saying it, and Clioboi is going to claim that he didn't see you (in the most conspicuous road position), well, tell us that. Or talk to your solicitor again, get everyone's stories straight.
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 13 years, 225 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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